Lord Of The Rings Discussion

Magicana Drofulcus · **Posted:** November 29th, 2007, 8:25 pm

Eadwulf wrote:

Magicana Drofulcus wrote:

Archbishop of Banana wrote:

Donuts question...Gandalf is 7000 years old...he arrived in middle earth in the beginning of the second age along with many other wizards such as Saruman and Radagast the Brown. the White council was formed aroud 2500-3000 years before the fellowship. so he was qiute young and probably not as wise as he was now...but full of more guile and energy...but his age had increased his wrath and fury.

Incidentally, they are all of the Maia (I think that is the spelling), which Sauron was too.

No, only Saruman was a Maia within the order. The rest were Istari, hence why Eru had to directly intervene with Gandalf's death after his battle with the Balrog of Khazad-Dûm. (Although I believe he "ascended", to a fashion, after he was resurrected.) Needless to say, none of them were ever "young". They were created as they were. The only differences between the time they were sent to Middle-Earth by the Valar, and, say, the war of the ring, is that they became more learned of the world they were in. It should be also noted that Gandalf was reputed as the oldest and the wisest of them all, especially among the Elves, which is why Círdan gave him his ring.

Morte wrote:

How did sauron come here in the first place?

He was a Maia, and became a servant to Melkor, later known as Morgoth (Essentially the Tolkien equivalent of Loki or Satan.) before even the Elves were created. He came to Middle-Earth when his master had first started his brutal campaigns in the land, and after the Valar defeated Morgoth, he hid in Middle-Earth.

I haven't read the Silmarillion in months, so my knowledge is rusty

Andrey · **Posted:** November 29th, 2007, 9:00 pm

Oh, the nerdiness. XD

Rory · **Posted:** November 29th, 2007, 9:18 pm

Andrey wrote:

Oh, the nerdiness. XD

I like your trolling!
Not

Has anyone noticed that the hobbit was a story for tolkiens kids?

Andrey · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 12:35 am

Morte wrote:

Andrey wrote:

Oh, the nerdiness. XD

I like your trolling!
Not

Has anyone noticed that the hobbit was a story for tolkiens kids?

It's not trolling. :-s

Rory · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 1:39 am

I am so not gonna explain

Archbishop of Banana · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 8:05 am

thank you for explaining eadwulf...but yes more or less everything he said is true. are there any other things anyone wants answered? anything about the Numenoreans or anything? And as for can Sauron consume the mortal? NO he will see him only and send forth Nazgul to intercept them....only the Palantiri can sauron use to consume someone into his own purposes thus manipulating them

and the one ring WONT turn u to a nazgul...it will turn u into madness such as Smeagol. Morgul weapons turn u to nazgul..or a ring similar to the nine given by sauron

Oh by the way....The Hobbit was made for people of all ages as it says so in the beginning of the book -.-

Tweedy · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 8:58 am

Maybe so Archbishop, but if you compare the Hobbit to the Lord of the Rings, the latter is significantly more complex and sophisticated. As an obvious example, the Orcs are termed goblins in the Hobbit. The point however that Morte was trying to convey was that the Hobbit was originally read as a story for Tolkien's children.

Eadwulf, I can't be bothered getting out my Silmarillion at the moment (since it is in another room), but I was always under the impression that the term Istari was merely a name applied to the five wizards who came to Middle Earth from Valinor. I thought they were still Maia, the same as Sauron. I seem to remember how Mithrandir was a Maia serving under a particular Valar (the name eludes me).

Question for anyone: seeing as the name is Middle Earth, wouldn't that imply that there are two other lands, to the east and west? Valinor is to the west, so what is to the east?

Archbishop of Banana · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 9:25 am

well i dont have my maps on me...but the lands starting east would be Khand and Rhun. were some of theEasterlings come from. but i will research this question more with my books and my records and notes get back at you unless eadwulf finds out first

Tweedy · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 9:35 am

Yes but I remember seeing an extended map of Middle Earth once - and there was an extended space to the east of the traditional area of Middle Earth (e.g. Gondor, Mordor, the north).

My only explanation would be that Middle Earth would only be considered to be the West and North of the continental mass. The eastern areas like Khand and Rhun, despite being part of the same land mass, are not considered to be Middle Earth.

Eadwulf · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 2:12 pm

There are a number of lands to the east of Middle-Earth, but I think the nearest one is the land of the sun, which is uninhabited. Other lands far to the east include whatever the names of the places where men and elves awoke are. There's another one to the south that's probably of a similar nature simply known as the "Dark Land." Also, Khand and Rhun were certainly parts of Middle-Earth. Actually, I think "Rhûn" also referred to a huge mass of land east of the sea of Rhûn that nobody knows anything about.

Tweedy wrote:

Eadwulf, I can't be bothered getting out my Silmarillion at the moment (since it is in another room), but I was always under the impression that the term Istari was merely a name applied to the five wizards who came to Middle Earth from Valinor. I thought they were still Maia, the same as Sauron. I seem to remember how Mithrandir was a Maia serving under a particular Valar (the name eludes me).

Now I'm remembering why these things' complexity vexed me so much before... Anyway, it's bloody complicated. Technically they're all the same order (Maiar), but it seems to me that the beings directly referred to as Maia (Balrogs, etc.) were notably more powerful than the wizards. Gandalf was a servant of Eru.

Archbishop of Banana wrote:

and the one ring WONT turn u to a nazgul...it will turn u into madness such as Smeagol. Morgul weapons turn u to nazgul..or a ring similar to the nine given by sauron

A mere mortal wearing the one ring for a greatly extended period of time would reduce them to a wraith and a mindless servant to Sauron.

Archbishop of Banana · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 2:24 pm

Archbishop of Banana wrote:

and the one ring WONT turn u to a nazgul...it will turn u into madness such as Smeagol. Morgul weapons turn u to nazgul..or a ring similar to the nine given by sauron

A mere mortal wearing the one ring for a greatly extended period of time would reduce them to a wraith and a mindless servant to Sauron.[/quote]

Trully? i dont remember reading that in any of the records. Also Eadwulf...am i not correct that the Balrog is from Udun? also HOW do u get the ^ above the letters

Eadwulf · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 2:31 pm

Well, you'll have to forgive any discrepancies I might cause, as my knowledge is mostly recalled from when I read the Silmarillion, and an anthology on Tolkien's Legendarium that I dug up at the library to deride thousands of inconsistencies in The Lord of the Rings Online. Anyway, one bearing the ring put them partway in a "shadow-realm" while they were wearing it, much like how the Nazgûl existed. It also goes without out saying that Sauron's evil would corrupt any who were exposed to it for a prolonged period of time. Balrogs were simply Maia that were corrupted by Morgoth.

As for the pointy thing, I just copy the symbols out of MS Word.

Archbishop of Banana · **Posted:** November 30th, 2007, 2:42 pm

Eadwulf wrote:

Well, you'll have to forgive any discrepancies I might cause, as my knowledge is mostly recalled from when I read the Silmarillion, and an anthology on Tolkien's Legendarium that I dug up at the library to deride thousands of inconsistencies in The Lord of the Rings Online. Anyway, one bearing the ring put them partway in a "shadow-realm" while they were wearing it, much like how the Nazgûl existed. It also goes without out saying that Sauron's evil would corrupt any who were exposed to it for a prolonged period of time. Balrogs were simply Maia that were corrupted by Morgoth.

As for the pointy thing, I just copy the symbols out of MS Word.

Unless they are of strng mind such as Smeagol? i have dozens of books about the issue of Middle earth and its history...some are wrtten by Christopher Tolkien and some from J.R.R Tolkien. i knew that the ring puts u partially in the shadowrealm thus doing so on Amon Sul were Frodo was stabbed and witnessed the RingWraiths uncloaked when he slipped it on...I now understand what u said about how the ring turns u to a slave of Sauron..i poured over some research and found it true as u said. We can also assume that Isildur could have been enslaved soon enough if he wasnt betrayed by the ring and killed...for the ring corrupted him

'

carnage64 · **Posted:** December 4th, 2007, 9:19 pm

Are you a lord of the rings dictionary?

also when frodo and gandalf and everybody sailed away. Where did they go?

Haven't seen a single lord of the rings thing in like forever.
So my knowledge is rusty.

Elf · **Posted:** December 5th, 2007, 9:02 am

carnage64 wrote:

also when frodo and gandalf and everybody sailed away. Where did they go?

To Valinor, or the White Shores if you will. It's where the Valar reside along with the elves.

Archbishop of Banana · **Posted:** December 5th, 2007, 4:40 pm

carnage64 wrote:

Are you a lord of the rings dictionary?

also when frodo and gandalf and everybody sailed away. Where did they go?

Haven't seen a single lord of the rings thing in like forever.
So my knowledge is rusty.

yes i am qiute the dictionary

but like elf said they went to Valinor. and now frodo and blibo wont die because the Eldar recieved them YAY!!

Eadwulf · **Posted:** December 5th, 2007, 7:16 pm

Elf wrote:

carnage64 wrote:

also when frodo and gandalf and everybody sailed away. Where did they go?

To Valinor, or the White Shores if you will. It's where the Valar reside along with the elves.

Also known as the Undying Lands.

Muscular Ape · **Posted:** December 19th, 2007, 4:51 am

Tweedy, I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I always thought Middle referred to time not to land.

Haha guess not:

Wikipedia wrote:

Middle-earth refers to the fictional 'mortal' lands where some of the stories of author J. R. R. Tolkien take place, as opposed to Aman or 'undying' lands, where the angelic Valar live together with most of the High Elves. The term's origin lies in a translation of the Middle English middel-erde which developed from Old English middangeard.

Tolkien said that his Middle-earth is our Earth, but in a fictional period in the past, estimating the end of the Third Age to about 6,000 years before his own time.[1]

The history of Tolkien's Middle-earth is divided into several Ages. The novel The Hobbit and the main text of The Lord of the Rings deal exclusively with events toward the end of the Third Age and conclude at the dawn of the Fourth Age, while The Silmarillion deals mainly with the First Age.

letskillhim · **Posted:** December 21st, 2007, 7:20 pm

Eldar?????????

Elf · **Posted:** December 21st, 2007, 10:14 pm

letskillhim wrote:

Eldar?????????

Elves, I believe it more specifically refers to those that came from Valinor though.

Correct me if I'm wrong

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