I agree with this, but since Sparky voted Muscular Ape, I will go back to my original vote for him and I implore you, Thr, to vote for him, too. We'll get Dr. Henry tomorrow...and tonight may shed some light on things as well, although I don't know how with the Detective gone...other than a botched/Dr. protected kill.

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We will see. If no one votes for Henry with me and both of you are still voting for ape I will switch. I feel that there is more evidence against Henry than ape and I don't want to switch to somthing I can't protect as well just right yet. Sparky seemed to have valid points in the last game so him going off Ape just voting for both the dead is a little worrying. I would also like to point out I don't really trust anyone right now but the already dead. (I hope that's understandable) I will say I'm about 90% sure Dr. Henrys mafia and 70% ape is. So lets see how this plays out untill the end of the day. That's when I will make my final choice.

Well, that's not what I was expecting at all. As I said several times, I was leaning towards both Lander & Dr Henry being town.

Now that Lander is dead, it smells of a Dr Henry frame-up to me.



Boasted of my game? All I said was I've played a bunch of games in 2013. Completely different games too, as I've pointed out several times.

Why do you think this was an activity kill? You, myself, Dr Henry, and Thr all had more posts than Lander on Day 2. That argument makes no sense.

You are being an awfully big hypocrite with this logic about pushing for the lynch as I will show. You also haven't been reading my posts, because I gave my reasoning of why someone had to be lynched and the only reason that someone was Lander at the time was because he had 2 votes compared to Dr's 1, and it was nearing the end of the day phase.



Yeah, if I'm mafia I'm really going to go ahead and kill the guy I was voting for the previous day phase... Jeebus.



And here is the massive hypocrisy. You're doing exactly what I intended to do yesterday for exactly the same reasons yet you are using it as evidence to vote for me. It is almost enough to make me vote for you, the logic is so shoddy. It barely took 2 posts to contradict yourself.



This is the most suspicious post of all. Coming out of the woodwork to vote for someone based on something so flimsy (in particular, a Day 1 vote? lol?) after contributing nothing yesterday. This is enough to earn my vote.

SparkyAMS



Yes, we should trust the guy who has contributed zero and another guy contradicting himself on the same page.

Please spell out the case against me. So far it makes no sense, and is completely contradictory. Spiro's "You pushed hard for the lynch yesterday" and then "We need to get a lynch today!" attitude should be enough to raise alarm bells that this lynchtrain is incredibly silly and based on flawed 'logic'.

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Here are some of my posts I was referencing by the way.

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I'd like to say "at last, some activity" but the only new poster was Sparky, who didn't say much or add much to the argument.

Thr, what I would like to know is what exactly you expect me to defend myself against? Until I convince you otherwise of what exactly? Your logic seems faulted. You claim to suspect me for being a mafia... but why? Because, having been berated by Lander for a wasted first post of D2, I tried to produce some activity and actions to generate information. I'm sure Ape would agree that the argument with Lander was commented on by others to enough extent that we can have more of an opinion on those who posted, and those who remained silent.

Both you and Spiro seem to have fallen straight into a trap, but I'd like to use Ape's quote to summarise it for you.



Sparky's vote for Ape can be seen in the same way.



Now Thr, if you are going to use the logic that:



when referring to Ape voting for Lander and then turning up dead, how can you justify my vote, and then full-on argument with him, with his death that night? If I were mafia, the WORST POSSIBLE PLAY would have been to kill Lander.

Want convincing? Here is a few ways the mafia profits from killing Lander:

1) As you are demonstrating, it makes me look incredibly scummy. An easy target for them to set up for a lynch. Way to fall into their trap.

2) The detective was likely to investigate one of the two of us last night. If he picked me, and they killed Lander, the detective may have come forward to save me as I am a villager, revealing the detective. If he investigated Lander, and found him to be a villager (as obviously the mafia would not have known Lander was the detective), then by killing Lander they wasted a night's detection. As it stands, they got perhaps the best possible outcome.

3) They kill off a veteran, who is active, and able to lead lynches against people. In my eyes, this could easily threaten someone like Monk who may be lurking without posting. People don't want to lynch inactives too early, so Monk may just be using his inactivity to get a free pass for a few days.

Then I would like you to tell me how exactly I, as a supposed mafia, would have profited from killing Lander? Your reasoning that I was afraid of being uncovered just doesn't fit, if you actually look at D2 -> I was under zero threat, nobody else was voting for me, and now the mafia have pulled the one move which would get me lynched. WHY WOULD I DO THAT IF I WAS MAFIA?

Thr, your entire argument just doesn't make sense. You have played one game as mafia and think that suddenly you can spot a mafia from nothing, and perhaps the most amusing thing is when you just claimed that Sparky made some valid points in the last game. No he didn't. He picked his night targets exceedingly well, but his posts did not contribute that much.

On a side note, I will not be voting for Ape today. He does not seem like a mafia at all, and I cannot see what is making you three consider him, unless at least two of you are the mafia trying to persuade the others, such as Riptide or myself, to vote for him.

Spiro, why don't you like my attack on Monk? He is refusing to respond and my vote on him stands, and I implore you all to join me. Perhaps when he gets to 3/4 votes he will see that he cannot just lurk anymore and needs to defend himself, or be revealed as mafia.

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Like Thr, I trust nobody in these games.

However there are a small few I'd be willing to throw my vote behind at this point. Monk is one of them, Sparky obviously another. Dr Henry is not. I don't know whether Spiro is mafia or just made an error of judgement voting for me for doing yesterday exactly what he is doing today. For whatever reason, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. So I'm leaning towards Sparky primarily because he has come out of the shadows of inactivity to vote for me with reasoning that is weaker than Spiro's.

There is something we have to wonder though. Did Lander turn up anything from his investigation from Night 1? Who would he investigate? Was he a likely roleblock target?

I get the impression from some of Lander's posts in this thread that there's a bit of manlove there for Monk. Hence, I reckon there was a good chance he investigated him Night 1. I know that early in other games when there is nothing much to go on and I have an investigative action I'll often check out those I have a bit of a mafia bromance with. Additionally, Lander seemed to somewhat avoid the question of Monk's alignment when the argument of 'prime doctor' targets were thrown up. Now that Lander has been confirmed as the Detective, I just have this feeling he may have investigated Monk. Other prime possibilities for a random investigate would be people who are hard to get a read on for whatever reason: Dr Henry (veteran/smooth talker?), myself (first game here), Thr (second game here?). I highly doubt he investigated Dr Henry, he would have outed himself as the Detective if he did, surely. Being roleblocked for the rest of the game would be worth lynching 1 of 2 mafia.

Of course, on the flip side, what if Lander was blocked? Was there a reasonably good chance of that? Everything I said above is meaningless if so.

That's all just food for thought before the lynchtrain on Monk begins though. I am willing to change my vote to Monk if people disagree with my theorising above. It is pretty weak evidence of Monk's alignment after all.

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Ninja'd: doesnt apply to post before thIs one.
Ape. What I have said is not contradictory. We now have 2 Town down and no Mafia. The biggest change in a single night was losing the Detective. We absolutely must lynch now. No information can come to us other than a botched night kill.
My pushing for the only way to win vs. your pushing a Day 2 lynch while we still have a Detective.
My logic is sound. No contradictions here.

Also: as I've said before, I don't mean activity in this single game. It's a meta feel. Past games coupled with this one. Threat value. Who sticks around till the end. Market and Lander were both good choices for activity as a whole.

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What do you mean by bromance/manlove? I don't quite understand you here.

And frankly, if Lander wasn't killed N1, he was a fairly likely roleblock target. As was I.

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Would there be flavor text to the tune of a blocked Detective....hmmmmm.

Also, we only have a day to go on with the bromance theory. Day One counts for nothing, and I don't glean any substancial "bromance" between them during Day 2.

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Also: something about Ape's last post about the bromance rubs me the wrong way. Its an oddly long and strange/missleading theory....and right after the other post, too. Maybe trying to get us to move on and miss something in the former?

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Actually, your original explanation was:



This is one of the reasons why I voted Lander yesterday.

This is one of the reasons why you're voting me today.

You are still contradicting yourself.



It's easy to say all this in hindsight. Lynching on Day 2 would have been the right move, but in hindsight, the person that was closest to being lynched was a terrible decision. As you said...



Either way, you are kidding yourself if you think either Dr Henry or myself were responsible for Lander's death after voting for him.

And, are we all forgetting something here, you voted for him too? You can't just write that off as a "Oh I was just testing the waters"... in my opinion, that's even worse. Were you going to change your vote had he got the penultimate vote? I bet you wouldn't have.



Lander was killed because of Dr Henry. Whether you believe it was to frame Dr Henry or a clever ruse by Dr Henry to make us think he is being framed is up to you. Right now, I believe the former.



Agreed on the latter.

What I mean by manlove/bromance as far as mafia goes is: appreciation and respect for their mafia ability. You know, a talented player recognising another talented/'big name' player. He named you and Monk several times as primary doctor targets. In my opinion, it's highly likely he investigated one of you two. It obviously wasn't you. On the flip side, it's highly likely he was blocked too.



No we don't.

It's not like recognising the appreciation has to come first. The actual appreciation does need to come first for my theory to work, but recognising it's existence can come whenever. It's faulty logic to say something can't exist as motivation for an action until it is acknowledged. I'm saying I think it's highly likely he investigated Monk because he appreciates him as a talented mafia player. It's almost always a meta-game investigate Night 1.

Apologies for being vague on the mafia bromance thing.



Haha. The post was in response to Dr Henry's above it, not trying to avoid it.

You're really trying too hard now and clutching at straws. Very close to giving that benefit of the doubt up, you're going after me harder despite having nothing.

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Actually, you know what? After reading your posts again, I think all my benefit of doubt is gone.

Spirographed

I am now thoroughly convinced you aren't town for several reasons:

1) You are contradicting yourself. It is there for everyone to see and I have pointed it out at least twice now.
2) You have been highly exaggerating my "push" to get Lander lynched. I stated that I think it's best we lynch someone on Day 2, and I picked Lander because Day was coming to a close and he had 2 votes vs Dr Henry had 1. There was no attempt to convince others to do the same. There was no push whatsoever, this has been a fabrication by yourself. I'm surprised nobody else has really mentioned it.
3) The only person who has backed you up thus far is someone who has offered little and I highly suspect to be the other mafia. The only person whose argument against me is weaker than yours.
4) Both arguments against me (yours and Sparky) are weak yet you are still pushing hard to get me lynched today.
5) You are now starting to clutch at even shorter straws (see above with regards to my post about Monk, ya know, the one where I said he's one of the few people I would vote for...) in a desperate attempt to convince the others to lynch me.

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Spiro Now my explanation. First off I would like to admit I did think Dr. Henry was mafia at first. I then thought it could be as you pointed out a mafia trap. I went along with it thinking mafia would jump on the train and attempt to lynch Henry. I waited and Spiro spoke up accusing Ape of being Mafia. He hasn't really done anything to come off as mafia but I went along with that too. I was hoping he would elaborate but that didn't happen. He then jumped on the Henry train pretty quick for having his own thought then just as quickly left when Sparky spoke up with little evidence. I would also like to state this is why I stated there is more than one meaning to everything so you would know I wasn't making this up, and so it wouldn't expose what I was doing. So if anything needs explained I will gladly do so. I have no clue if this was worth doing but I tried.

Ape beat me to the punch lol. Also once again excuse my mishaps in my post. I'm still on my phone and its hard to edit with a touch screen.

As you all may know, I vote mainly on data and intuition, Much like the esteemed Mr. Holmes. But alas, I am no detective, In fact, we have already lost the only one we had. From what I have seen so far, I have made a list of whom I think are scum, and who are most likely not scum. If those who have been SIGHlent so far would like to help make this day not a waste, unlike the last two, then they are welcome to help me and Spiro in our noble cause to clean up this town of ones such as Ape and Henry. THRough a simple change of vote we can be on our way of ridding our town of scum.

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I look forward to Dr Henry's opinion on all of this, regardless of who he 'sides' with.

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You just keep repeating yourself, so it forces me to do the same. It isn't a contradiction to feel one way when the Detective is still alive, and another way when he is dead. Also: I don't feel like I'm grasping at straws. It feels like seeing one thing after another. I'm not against you for any one thing. At this point it's a combination of things and the newest is the OMGUS.
Also: nice try. Dr. Henry will surely cast his vote on me. He is your co-conspiritor. A feigned ignorance isn't going to work on me. Its all worked on Thr. For shame, Thr....for shame.

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I would like to say this. As long as someone gets lynched today it will be easy to figure out who's mafia the next day. If its a mis lynch there will be 3 villigers and 2 mafia the next day. It will be blatently obvious who the mafia are. But if we don't lynch today that will leave 4 villagers and 2 mafia and that will not be as easy to detect. It seems that the mafia are in a pair either way so all the town members need is a lynch to see which side is right. Or atleast that's my assumption.

Thr, your little failed plan with the whole voting for yourself and see who trains coupled with that lastpost have me thoroughly convinced you are a town member. It won't be any easier to figure out if people that haven't spoken up don't speak up and give some input, man. :/
And the town is in worse off shape in the 3/2 situation with the detective dead.

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But you implied earlier that I was trying to lead people away from Monk:



Wouldn't that make Monk my co-conspirator?

Your posts are only convincing me further that I am indeed correct.

You are mafia.

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