When I say 'send the kill' I literally mean the Godfather is required to physically carry out the kill within the game for purposes of the roleblocker, watcher, stalker, etc etc. You seem to be either misunderstanding me, or completely ignoring the fact that the MAFIA GODFATHER could have been the victim of a block and also required to carry out the kill every night until he dies, as in some games past.

And your dismissal of an inactive mafia is just ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons as to why the mafia would not send in a kill. At the beginning of a game, especially lacking a person of experience, it's a mad scramble until someone unifies the mafia via a google group or a bunch of PMs. In a game that potentially has *six* mafia, it alarms me that you are willing to toss out the possibility that the mafia is inactive, or at the very least, currently disorganized.

There are literally no reasons the roleblocker should come clean now versus a block on the same person on N2. If we are to assume that the majority of us are vanilla townies, and also that one would receive a message upon being blocked, said townie could come clean right away. If on the off chance it was a role, then that sucks and it's up to them whether or not to claim and tell the roleblocker to knock it off.

This entire conversation hinges on the *existence* of a roleblocker. Frankly, there is far too much speculation and not enough scumhunting going on right now.

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The whole point of this is, either way, we have an inactive Tru, WHO HAS STILL NOT POSTED. He needs to go, and we might as well lynch him and use the info, rather than let Jaron Mod Kill him. That's just how I see it.

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Pretty much my sentiment, except Jaron said he will replace him, against his better judgment. Soooo....yeah. Get your facts straight. If Jaron WAS going to mod-kill him, why would we need to lynch him? The end result is the same.

Pretty big oversight there, bud. But I am still not changing my vote as of yet.

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This. The typical thing to do with an inactive player is to replace them. I know Scar's been a replacement guy in a couple of games. If Jaron were going to mod kill him, and we lynch him anyways, it's a wasted lynch unless he flips mafia.

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Kikori wrote:

Topsummoner wrote:

Riptide wrote:

I used to get you and J@n mixed up. Except your funnier. And nicer. Happy 21st bro!

Oh man Jan, you just got zinged by Riptide. How much does THAT suck?

Well, statistically speaking, slightly more than a giant suckusaur. A dire one.

PenguinGuy wrote:

Lets see if I remember how to play...

EX REX IS MAFIA SCUM FOURTHVOTER UNVILLAGE BLAH BLAH BLAH SCUM BLAH WINE IN FRONT OF ME BLAH BLAH META GAME BLAH BLAH BLAH SMELLS OF ELDERBERRIES BLAH

Right?

Image doesn't load.

You're assuming the Godfather both exists sends designated killers. Kind of funny how you can be so sure about it.

If blocking the Godfather = stopping the kill, Godfather getting blocked = Godfather is an idiot?

As I recall, it was I who started the trend of the Godfather sending a designated person to make the kill for the sake of Watchers and Trackers. That has not been the case in every game, especially those without a Godfather present. Fun fact, between Jaron's break from Mafia and the present, I don't think he's played a game where the Godfather designates a person to send in the kill. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. And this still runs under the assumption that the Godfather exists and sends designated killers.

You responded to my version as well later, I think Jack's joking, I ordered them from most to least likely (while not saying so, derp on my part).

21 people -1 because he knows he's not Mafia, I guess 6 Mafia. 6/20. WHOOPS, I WAS WRONG BY PROBABLY 4%.
And it's relevant in my eyes because it directly relates to your argument about why one should or shouldn't stay silent about their results as stated in the following lines.

You still run under the assumption that there is a Godfather sending designated killers. That assumption is going to make an ass out of you and someone.

I try to avoid worst case scenarios. I'd rather the Roleblocker get a try or two more before letting it out.

And yes, I vote for you. You're taking that one single assumption of "Jaron has a Godfather who designates which Mafia member sends in kills" so far that it concerns me.

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There are 10 types of people in the world, the ones that understand binary, and the ones that don't.

Thanks Lou for the help with the avatar.

So you want me to assume something and then not operate under that assumption? That's not how assuming works. Additionally, while I am assuming killers are designated, if the Godfather can't designate, he's simply 'forced' to send himself. This changes only that my first point against Lander saying that the roleblocker should wait to claim is less valid.



Okay this seriously took me about an hour to work out what in the blue hell you're saying.

If blocking the Godfather ASSUMING THE GODFATHER CAN DESIGNATE = stopping the kill, Godfather sending the same person to kill tonight = Godfather is an idiot.

See now, you seem to be assuming that the Godfather in fact cannot designate. Why is that? You clearly don't think I think that way, so where are you getting this notion?

I'm sorry that you feel you must vote for me for taking an assumption to its logical extreme. Now why is it that both you and Lander seem to be parroting each other rather nicely?

Answer carefully.

Blast, forgot to merge my two reply boxes before submitting. Oh well.



Sure it does. We also have evidence for the existence of one: a missing night action and a claim. Got any evidence to oppose that? I'll wait.



I think we're misunderstanding each other. I am saying that the killer was blocked. I give zero :bunny: whether the Godfather is the killer or merely the go-between.



Oh yes there are.

1) If the kill is assigned per night then blocking the same person twice is unlikely to yield a successful block. What's the mafia going to do, no-kill to make a townie look innocent? Assign it to the same person and essentially both no-kill and out one of their own? No, they're going to assign the kill to a different person, so the roleblocker gets to sit on his ass and the mafia gets a kill.

2) If he's killed tonight then we get no data whatsoever as to who he blocked. Is that what you want?




Again, only ever happened one night in one game in the scores of games that have happened on RV. Take that chance per night and you're hovering around 2.5%. How you think this is more likely than the 5% a roleblocker has is beyond me, not to mention the fact it there's evidence that that 5% got hit.

[youtube]P3Ng-cZ5tLU[/youtube]

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[youtube]nCvhIFg_Uxk[/youtube]

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I want you to assume something but be open to ideas, since nothing is for certain. There's a line between running with an idea and absolutely dismissing any logic NOT related to the idea. You know, kind of like how religion and science go hand in hand.

You've made it abundantly clear you're running under the assumption that the Godfather exists and designates which Mafia member performs a kill, and that designated member has to be roleblocked for the roleblocker to successfully stop a night kill.


That's your idea in a nutshell. It's a sound idea, and in no way have I attempted to dismiss it as a possibility.
You, however, have decided to act as though it is the stone cold truth and anyone else's train of thought is ridiculous.

Took me about two seconds to consider how to respond. Your behavior suggests you know something incredibly important that we don't, so just spill it already. Where is the missing link turning your "logical extreme" fanaticism into actual fact? Or are you really just that desperate to operate under one single idea that is in no way confirmed, something you seem to be getting angry about waiting to SEE confirmed in any possible way?

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Well, when it's 11 votes to lynch, it was better to keep my vote out there doing something than to withhold it. I wanted an explanation of the Godfather conclusion and I got it. However:



The alternative is having any mafia being able to send in the kill. This is something I have used. But mulling it over a Godfather is more likely (as the alternative in a game with a large mafia has potential for abuse), but I think the Godfather would dispatch a killer and not necessarily carry it out himself. When I use Godfathers, this is how I make them operate. This discounts the roleblocker roleclaim scenario as being not very fruitful, as such, if any role like that exists, I suggest you do not claim.

Back to the matter of Tru:


The 'pressure to post' is a bit of a useless justifier for your vote in this case. Jaron stated that Tru had, by the end of Night One, not even READ his role pm. His inactivity cannot be a choice, it is either he forgot about the game (that's what I'm subscribing to), or he has real-life issues preventing him from visiting RV.

What exactly are the 'odds' of Tru being the Godfather? There are simply too many unknown variables at this point in the game, the mafia could have not killed for a number of reasons.


----
All that aside Lander, I think I see what you're doing. Pushing on Tru has for better or for worse generated information. Unvote.

H'okay. So where is thedefencema? Like Tru he has not posted, but as Jaron didn't announce his name, it can be inferred he has read his PM.

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.Legendary themed months are back! Maybe.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh .
It's a party now.

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This has gotten quite out of hand. Everyone is making assumptions, and declaring their assumptions more valid than the others.

We know there was no kill. There is two reasons this could have happened: The Mafia internally were unable to perform the kill, or, The Mafia externally was prevented from performing the kill. Internal reasons could be either disorganization and inactivity in the mafia as a whole, or a all-powerful godfather that's inactive. Externally, there could have been a protective role that saved the targeted but wasn't publicized (uncommon here, but common elsewhere), or a roleblocking role, which likewise wasn't publicized. These are the four reasons there was no kill, and all of these have already been stated.

However, everyone is picking one and invalidating all the others, most notably Monk, Kikori, and Lander. In addition, the presence of a roleblocker or doctor doesn't confirm their use, since they both could have used their abilities, but it was the inactive mafia or inactive godfather that didn't send in a kill. There is very little information to sway us either way, and the closest thing to it is Jack's claim, and the relevance and seriousness are uncertain. I know it's one of these four reasons, but I, like the rest of us should be with the lack of info, am open to either of the four being the truth. Like Frank has said, right now this is just a big red herringI think that's what he means, I have no idea what touchdowns and armored cars have to do with anything.

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Guys, seriously? What's with all this tl;dr bullcrap? I think it's quite simple, really: Go after Jackstick. My god is that hard? Jesus

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I feel like this is the most substantial question/point that has been asked/made all day.

Vandal and Rex have been pretty quiet too. I don't know how that compares to their normal gameplay trends but yeah.


Animal are you the mafia godfather (Y/N)

He recently got a virus due to the incorrect Hamachi download. (Lol.) He should be back soon.

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Kikori wrote:

Topsummoner wrote:

Riptide wrote:

I used to get you and J@n mixed up. Except your funnier. And nicer. Happy 21st bro!

Oh man Jan, you just got zinged by Riptide. How much does THAT suck?

Well, statistically speaking, slightly more than a giant suckusaur. A dire one.

PenguinGuy wrote:

Lets see if I remember how to play...

EX REX IS MAFIA SCUM FOURTHVOTER UNVILLAGE BLAH BLAH BLAH SCUM BLAH WINE IN FRONT OF ME BLAH BLAH META GAME BLAH BLAH BLAH SMELLS OF ELDERBERRIES BLAH

Right?

I feel like this is the most substantial question/point that has been asked/made all day.

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ohohoohohohohoho

No one should put words in my mouth or assume I am taking a solid stance on any one possibility. Kikori put it in the simplest terms: Monk has made up his mind as to what is the truth and what isn't the truth, even though there is only ONE WAY at this point that he could know what he's assuming. I'm merely flabbergasted at the fact that he isn't at all willing to consider any other options and has placed a vote for me besides. What's more, he's taken Jack's claim as the truth which is nothing short of ludicrous. Earlier on when Jack wanted to make a serious point, he said in an aside that he was being serious. He didn't do that when he claimed roleblocker, and I would be willing to bet everything I own that he isn't the roleblocker. Whether or not Frank is mafia remains to be seen.

The only thing I am adamant about is that if there is a roleblocker, now is not the time to claim. It seems if there is one, they have already made their decision to stay quiet. But I made the point in my last post that the entire conversation hinges on the existence of a roleblocker, which is something we are probably wasting out time on in any case. But it is getting people to talk, so I suppose the end result is the same.

Vandal and defencema ought to be posting, there's no real excuse for them NOT doing so...aside from Riptide's defense of Vandal. Ex Rex as been generally inactive in his most recent games of mafia, so we shouldn't expect much from him there. Isn't Doc Henry in this game? Where's he? I remember why I didn't especially like games of this size, it was far too easy for some to slip into inactivity while a minority of us do all the posting.

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