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Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
Yes. (for US citizens) 18%  18%  [ 13 ]
No. (for US citizens) 38%  38%  [ 27 ]
Neutral. (for US citizens) 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
Yes. (Non-US citizens) 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
No. (Non-US citizens) 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
Neutral. (Non-US citizens) 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 72
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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 17th, 2010, 10:56 am 
Hai
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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 20th, 2010, 8:31 pm 
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Znath wrote:
"....but he's atheist.. what gets built where an atheist attacks?"
Proper nouns before pronouns, who are you even talking about and how is it relevant.


It was a joke about Kim Jong Il being atheist, so if he attacked what would be build? (in relation to the "tolerance mosque")

bartoron wrote:
Proletariat wrote:
It doesn't matter if he gets a second term or not, because it doesn't matter what Obama or any president or leader of any nation does, there are much bigger concepts at work and seeds which have been sewn for generations and generations, the consequences of which will be reaped regardless.


Cool conspiracy theory, bro.

:-s bartoron :-s


Not much of a conspiracy theory... Our generation is still dealing with the effects of WWI and WWII... Roughly 3 generations later and the U.S. is still considered the dominant super power of the world. There are much bigger things going on than simple political squabbles over gay marriage, legalization of certain drugs, etc etc, and one man in one nation no matter his position of power isn't going to change it on his own. At least that's what I think he's getting at... It doesn't really matter, I doubt you have any sort of rebuttal for his upcoming response (if there is one).

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2010, 11:32 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2010, 6:57 pm 
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...Well if you're going that far, our modern era is the result of the past... of course.

You CAN still see some direct effects of ww2 such as...
Remnants of the Soviet empire are STILL in turmoil after its collapse
eg. Georgia, Korea, Southwest asia...

Furthermore, the collapse of the Soviet empire spread weapons to previously
unweaponized areas like Africa

So... think of anything that happened as the result of the collapse of the USSR
and basically
WW2 -> Soviet Empire -> Collapse effects

So.. in that sense many direct effects of WW2 are still ongoing....
but I don't quite see how that has anything to do with Obama being elected again...
Aside from the whole... ignoring N.Korea for a year.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2010, 10:21 pm 
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Regardless of if we are still feeling the effects of ww2, its true that one man cant really do anything. Unless we can elect obama to every seat in the house/senate and supreme court


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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 12:24 am 
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bartoron wrote:
2. Yeah, I really don't appreciate that.
:-s bartoron :-s


bartoron wrote:
Cool conspiracy theory, bro.


I guess when you call someone a conspiracy theorist it leaves a pretty poor mark of your ability to bring anything into a debate.

Debates aren't meant to appease your ego, they are meant to state sides. Plain and simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 12:39 am 
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Take a deep breath, Bartoron. Expand your mind. Because I'm about to put my intellectual boot in it.

I was more or less referring to the era of nationalism which still dominates the globe. We are slowly entering a new era of Globalism, and the rate at which we are shifting to Globalism is increasing exponentially with time. For example, by the time China is the dominant economic superpower in 20 years, it won't matter because the world won't be divided into seperate nationalist economies. Instead there will be large, regional economies and eventually a single global economy, which will be extremely interconnected and interdependent, as we are already seeing in the effects the U.S. recession has had on global capital markets.

Nationalism is one of the most evil things to ever exist. It has been used for centuries by noblemen and kings and highly influential leaders like Joan Of Arc to win wars, command territory, control societies, take and create entire economies and systems of wealth and resources, great stone monuments, castles, and towering cities, and to perpetrate religion as a tool fo social control.

Unfortunately when it comes down to it, the benefits of organized nationalism are split into 10% and 90%. 10% of the people take most of the benefit, on 90% of the people's backs. It is virtually the same from nation to nation. The social structure of nationalism allows for great achievements, but these achievements are always self-centered and dismiss beyond reality the possibility of salvation for humanity. We are far too entrenched in the military-industrial complex (Which means our economy is dependent upon the production of war materials) as are most nations, partly from the aftermath of WW2. North Korea, for example, has an economy entirely dependent upon their military, which is why they try to launch missiles into the ocean to provoke other nations into war. War is extremely profitable for the few, and extremely terrible for the many.

But really it all just comes back to the nationalist structure of human progress of the past thousand years. Which is why I don't care if Obama is president or not, because we are similar to an ant colony in the sense that we have a very organized, encultured, and socialized schemea of human activity, and these methods of life are in full swing and will continue to follow through whether he is president or not.

Of course, the president of the United States does have some small effect on things.

By the way, that "Cool story Bro" meme just makes you look like a sheep, with pre-pubescent teenagers as your shepherd.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 2:13 am 
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Proletariat wrote:
Take a deep breath, Bartoron. Expand your mind. Because I'm about to put my intellectual boot in it.

I was more or less referring to the era of nationalism which still dominates the globe. We are slowly entering a new era of Globalism, and the rate at which we are shifting to Globalism is increasing exponentially with time. For example, by the time China is the dominant economic superpower in 20 years, it won't matter because the world won't be divided into seperate nationalist economies. Instead there will be large, regional economies and eventually a single global economy, which will be extremely interconnected and interdependent, as we are already seeing in the effects the U.S. recession has had on global capital markets.

Nationalism is one of the most evil things to ever exist. It has been used for centuries by noblemen and kings and highly influential leaders like Joan Of Arc to win wars, command territory, control societies, take and create entire economies and systems of wealth and resources, great stone monuments, castles, and towering cities, and to perpetrate religion as a tool fo social control.

Unfortunately when it comes down to it, the benefits of organized nationalism are split into 10% and 90%. 10% of the people take most of the benefit, on 90% of the people's backs. It is virtually the same from nation to nation. The social structure of nationalism allows for great achievements, but these achievements are always self-centered and dismiss beyond reality the possibility of salvation for humanity. We are far too entrenched in the military-industrial complex (Which means our economy is dependent upon the production of war materials) as are most nations, partly from the aftermath of WW2. North Korea, for example, has an economy entirely dependent upon their military, which is why they try to launch missiles into the ocean to provoke other nations into war. War is extremely profitable for the few, and extremely terrible for the many.

But really it all just comes back to the nationalist structure of human progress of the past thousand years. Which is why I don't care if Obama is president or not, because we are similar to an ant colony in the sense that we have a very organized, encultured, and socialized schemea of human activity, and these methods of life are in full swing and will continue to follow through whether he is president or not.

Of course, the president of the United States does have some small effect on things.

By the way, that "Cool story Bro" meme just makes you look like a sheep, with pre-pubescent teenagers as your shepherd.


Sir, if I was a homosexual, I would be on you right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 9:07 am 
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Proletariat wrote:
By the way, that "Cool story Bro" meme just makes you look like a sheep, with pre-pubescent teenagers as your shepherd.


Maybe he just spends a lot of time on 2+2.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 1:51 pm 
Hai
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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 7:18 pm 
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It's obvious you misunderstood the whole point of his post, but that's ok, I just have a few things to say.

bartoron wrote:
What exactly is a "nationalist economy?"


The opposite of a free-trade economy. Obviously you used the quotes because you think it's a made up term, which is regrettable.

80% of the world lives in "developing nations" and the president of the U.S. can send our military into a country for 90 days all on his own. Hmm....

Plenty of wars are started for greedy reasons, if you're a U.S. citizen and you don't get your news from an online source and rely solely on CNN or something, you probably won't hear much about any other war/conflict going on in the world for your entire life unless it's: A) a US war. B) a Israeli conflict/war.

Bartoron wrote:
But the structure of human progress isn't merely nationalist. If nationalism were the only thing that mattered, then why would there ever be times of peace? International organizations are detrimental to the independence and nationalistic identity of nations, yet they are becoming ever-more important in the world.


I didn't see where he said that they were.

This is getting horribly off-topic, but it's pretty obvious you failed to connect the dots from his first post to his last one, but I won't speak in his place as to why or how, because quite frankly I don't care about some16-18 year old kid on runevillage who wants to debate, but doesn't know how other than to use memes.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2010, 10:12 pm 
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I was afraid you wouldn't grasp my concept, it really is rather broad and hard to understand.
I will now adhere to the "He said, she said" format of Runevillage debate by using quotes to single out the things you say and argue them with my own personal opinion without providing any historical reference and using only my own inferences.

Quote:
but that doesn't mean that nationalism is causing the world to be as dangerous as it once was. No large nationalistic fervor is going to send the entire world into war.

I was really making my whole point about nationalism from a historical perspective, since historically the only way to mobilize vast resources to raise armies of millions to slaughter millions more and to perpetrate large scale and terrible warfare is to unite them under a flag, religion, system of economy, etc. And the only way to defend from such an assault of ideological, economic, and military might is to use nationalism to raise an army of millions more. We've been doing it for thousands of years.

And I don't know how you can completely deny the existence of World War Two, or to excsuse it as "Oh, it was only 60 years ago, things have changed, it could never happen again." A large nationalistic fervor sending the entire world into war is exactly what took place. That's why they call it the World War. But all of this is really obvious, so I'm going to move on.


Quote:
What exactly is a "nationalist economy?"


Well since you asked for the exact description, I'll bend the runevillage format of not using any facts and give it to you via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_nationalism

Quote:
Economic nationalism is a term used to describe policies which emphasize on domestic control of the economy, labor and capital formation, even if this requires the imposition of tariffs and other restrictions on the movement of labor, goods and capital. It is in opposition to globalization in many cases, or at least it questions the benefits of unrestricted free trade. Economic nationalism may include such doctrines as protectionism and import substitution.



Quote:
Of course nationalism is one of the most evil things to ever exist, but the world as a whole is not going to be plunged into war due to nationalistic feelings or religious ideologies. It's no longer possible for a highly influential leader to get away with controlling an entire country's population and cause it to go out and take control of other people without the knowledge of others. Even though massive genocides are still a reality, they are not going to spread to the developed nations.


North Korea, Iran. Look them up, read something. You could probably argue things better on Runevillage if you spent more time reading substantial and enlightening information at other places instead of reading the crap teenagers post on Runevillage all day. Genocide coincidentally, is definitively based on religious ideologies. That's why it's called Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing instead of War, because it's just killing people because they're nonbelievers. But I keep forgetting, you don't remember the millions of jews that were exterminated.

Quote:
Of course war is highly profitable (how else would the United States have been able to flourism economically during the 1920s (at least on the surface) and so quickly emerge from the Great Depression once we became involved in WWII?), but wars are not started for the sake of making money. With regard to your example of North Korea, how exactly has basing an entire economy upon the military proven successful?
Wars are started for the sake of making money all the time. That's why we started a war in Iraq, because our economy is so dependent on oil that you couldn't pay someone enough money NOT to go there and make OPEC (The organization responsible for most of the oil in the middle east) open up exports out of the Persian gulf into the U.S. Of course OPEC doesn't really exist anymore, we sort of blew up their 2nd largest player. (Iraq).

Also, I wasn't inferring that basing your entire economy upon your military has proven successful or unsuccessful for one country or another, I was just inferring that it takes place in the real world. But it's easy to turn things like that around on someone, and make ti sound like they were saying something they actually weren't to make them look stupid. Too bad you're the stupid one.

Quote:
But the structure of human progress isn't merely nationalist. If nationalism were the only thing that mattered, then why would there ever be times of peace? International organizations are detrimental to the independence and nationalistic identity of nations, yet they are becoming ever-more important in the world.


Once again, the use of phrases like "If nationalism were the only thing that mattered," to infer that I suggested that nationalism was the only thing that mattered, when really I was just using it as a focused example of how human activity has historically always been engaged in war and activities which are detrimental to the prosperity of man, and that having Barrack Obama as president really won't make or break the path that humanity has been on for thousands of years of killing and imprisoning and torturing each other.

Times of peace exist for the same reasons as times of war. Peace is beneficial to both parties, so peace takes place. War is beneficial to both parties, so war takes place. It's actually pretty simple.
And I'm really not worried about anything being detrimental to the independence and nationalistic identity of nations, considering it is this independence and nationalistic identity that often prevents us all from working together to solve problems. And the part about international organizations becoming ever more important in the world just sort of promotes and supports my statement about how globalism is on the advance. So really I don't see the argument there, which I was expecting since the whole point of your post was to agree with me on the basic level, but then to disagree with me on purpose for your own amusement or apparently no reason at all.

Anyways, I'm gonna cash out, if I spend more than two hours on this website every six months my IQ starts to go down.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 26th, 2010, 9:56 am 
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lol aren't you a bit biased Proletariat? It is after all the goal of proletarian internationalists to destroy the national identity and the means for the people to defend themselves again your kind when you decided to take over nations with your ideology? I mean it is pretty hard for the dictatorship of the proletariat to succeed if the free people would rise up and resist your regime of lies.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 26th, 2010, 11:46 pm 
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I can tell you for undisputed fact that his name refers to the Proletariat being the lowest working class in a society of who's only means of earning a living are direct labor. You do not have to be Communist or Marxist or any of that crap to be a Proletariat. Proletariat actually refers to the working man in a capitalist economy in Marxist theory.. Which is exactly what the above post is, a wage earner in a capitalist economy. He has no goals of toppling the national identity, he uses the term as a moniker on a website because it was available and describes him in a very general sense. No more. No less.

It's pretty hard to form a debate based upon a name and your speculation of the meaning behind a online moniker... It's also quite a leap to tie "Proletariat" to "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" as they are two completely different things.

Your post is thus entirely irrelevant as you simply read into a name without knowing the meaning of why he used it. Then you tried to demean his entire post based upon your speculation (See: no information) and ended up contributing absolutely nothing to this debate other than worthless speculation, and ended up being entirely wrong anyways.

Not that it matters, because he is right in the sense that nationalism has lead to globalization which is taking over and as things become more globalized, any president of any nation becomes less important.

Editing this in because I forgot to last night: Just out of curiosity Zizi, what ideology are you even talking about? I'm confused as to what you even think it is, it's more or less direct democracy. So I don't see what the "regime of lies" etc. etc. is that you're talking about... Like I said, just out of curiosity, I don't want to derail the topic anymore than it already is.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 27th, 2010, 6:05 am 
Hai
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Holy crap.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 27th, 2010, 9:58 pm 
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Looks like I'm only biased in the sense that I have sixty times the capacity for intelligent thought as you do, and therefore victory in a debate against you is always pre-ordained.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 28th, 2010, 1:50 am 
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I would love to see somebody with 10 times the capacity of intelligent thought as somebody able to type a single sentence. That's Einstein territory there.

So character assassination and lofty ascendancy aside...
How about keeping brief and to the facts?

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 28th, 2010, 11:44 am 
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Suicide Messiah wrote:
I don't care about some16-18 year old kid on runevillage who wants to debate, but doesn't know how other than to use memes.

If you don't "care about some 16-18 year old kid on Runevillage" why are you still here then?

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: June 28th, 2010, 12:20 pm 
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It's been long established that if you're actually interested in a lively reasonable debate
RV is not the place.

It would be nice if people would make decent debating posts and
think out things thoroughly.

But usually all it results in is
repeating old information, ignoring factual data, and baseless insulting like a child
"I don't care about some16-18 year old kid on runevillage who wants to debate, but doesn't know how other than to use memes."

So where a good debate is hard to find here,
that doesn't mean that you can unleash an avalanche of insults on your opponent.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Barrack Obama get 2nd Term as US Prez?
PostPosted: July 24th, 2010, 9:04 pm 
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Being a libertarian I'd prefer a democrat in office but
I don't care if its Obama or not. My basic political ideas are: Pro arms, pro choice, small government, and pro legalization of marijuana, Republicans have some good ideas but hardly ever stick to them.

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