He tried to pass public healthcare, aka socialized medicine, and succeeded in a slightly toned down version. I could go on and on... but I think this makes my point, and I'd probably give myself carpel tunnel if I tried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_communism


Slightly? More like extremely town downed. There's still millions of Americans that aren't covered by health care and fees still remain exorbitantly high. No please, do go on. I want to see the rest of socialist Obama. Were you to tell me that Candidate Obama was socialist, I would have to agree with you to an extent. President Obama? He's just another corporate puppet that's the lesser to the two evils.

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Props to steve-loser on the old sig.

I'm not going to make a list, if you are far left, he won't look socialist. To most people who are even slightly right and many moderates he does though.

I don't judge him solely on what he's been able to do, but what he has done.

Moderates in both parties and the right have forced him to town down his agenda (thank god). He is, however, a Socialist.

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I'll look at that link. However, I'm going to answer in advance: I know Communism is supposed to be like that (I do believe it's inventors, while misguided, did have their hearts in the right place and wanted to make life better for people.) I just believe it's impossible.

The kind of society in which it would work is the kind of society that doesn't need it.

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If men were governed by angels they would need no restrictions on their power" -James Madison (Paraphrased)

This pretty much sums it up. In our society, it doesn't work, in perfect society, you don't need it.

So, even if this idea is socialist, which I'm not going to agree with you there, what's the deal? I feel like you hate socialism for no other reason than it's socialism.

So maybe the idea leans towards the socialism side. So what? Capitalism isn't perfect. Neither is socialism. What if we weren't transitioning from one to the other, but cherry picking ideas from both that are right for us as a nation?

You've only explained why his healthcare is bad because it's socialism, not why it's bad because of its own flaws. Do you have some kind of fear of "the Red Menace?"

Come'on dude. Get over it. The Cold War's over.

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Natemania! The Nateman sensation that's sweeping the nation!


Thanks for the sig, Viruz.
"Ambition is the last refuge of failure." ~Oscar Wilde

Oh crap, my reply messed up. Sorry for the wait.

I do dislike socialism, because it's a failed system that lowers the quality of living, of the entire income spectrum over time. In addition it required that liberties be forfeited and that individual decisions are made by crooked politicians. Keep in mind politicians have the same desires as the CEOs they like to attack. Money and power.

Yes, cherry picking is a good idea. It is my opinion that capitalism only works if you have a safety net, and even more importantly, some form of quality free education. At the same time though, I will say that the United States has over the last 200 years picked far, far to many cherries. We have done well until now, however, our standard of living has fallen as the price of socialist policies has become to high for economic profit to cover.



Yes, I do fear the red menace. Not the USSR, but the self destruction of my nation, which I love very much, due to the increasing prevalence of socialist ideas.

Socialism and communism have destroyed nation, lives, and livelihoods. While in theory, communism could work (it would still be wrong because it requires that individual rights be forfeited), people in power have (like I said) the same goals as CEOs, and cannot, under any circumstances, good intentions or not, be trusted.

How many politicians from either party are actually honest and do what they say they will? How many follow our most fundamental laws? Very few.

I will not give up my rights, and I must inform you as a fellow voter. You don't have the right to take them.

EDIT: Yes, I could give you a long list of flaws of the public healthcare that has failed in the UK and Canada (to name a couple). I could tell you that the government has no business telling me to buy yet another insurance: while I'd voluntarily buy it regardless, I'm not going to have them tell me. I could say that 30% of businesses are cutting care. I could say that it's expensive. I could say that the policy will become worse over time, like Social Security (a very reasonable policy when it was invented, FDR made lots of promises which have all been broken now, resulting in today's instability and expense of the system.)

I could say that healthcare will become a bureaucratic institution just like every other place our government sticks it's fat head. But I don't want to go into it.

If you are that against "socialism," you must have hated FDR, Lincoln, and Washington as presidents. What the USA is experiencing politically is not socialism. In fact, our politics are pretty far right compared to most other countries. You simply see an influx of more closely/genuinely liberal ideas, and you interpret that as socialism.

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Bullwinkle: Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.
Rocky: But that trick never works!

Please do.

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"What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."- The last words of General John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in the American civil war

Oh god, yes, look at how poorly countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland have fared.

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Huge thanks to Ownage pk for the signature.

Formerly known as Hawaiigopher

I think it's important to ask this question before anything else. Where do you draw the line that health care funded by tax payers is socialism? Why haven't you ever made mention of publicly funded streets, parks, schools, and so on? Are you trying to say that as of right now, politicians aren't being bought as commodities to have the best interest in mind of big banks and corporations?


The standard of living hasn't fallen because "socialist" policies, it's because the free markets don't even exist; there is absolutely no competition. It's all a matter whom the government chooses to not tax and not regulate that succeed on top and all of those record breaking profits aren't going back to the country nor are new jobs being created because it all goes outside of the USA.


Could you explain to which countries were lead under a socialist or communist regime and explain to me why that country has fallen? What individual rights to be forfeited are you talking about? The right to be underpaid while all profit is appropriated to the person that owns the means of production? Communism doesn't call for individual rights to be abolished, you still have the right to property and to make a living, what it calls for is the means of production belonging to the people and not just one individual.


Oh, I can definitely agree with you there.


Well then, please list out to me the flaws of public healthcare system in Canada. I live in Canada and I would dare not to live in the USA so it would be interesting to see an outsider's point of view... Could you explain the benefits of your healthcare system over that of a publicly funded one? By the way, are you covered by a health insurer? How has that been like?

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Props to steve-loser on the old sig.

How'd Greece do with their Socialist tendancies?

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I HATE EBT cards.

I would like to move to the UK because of the health care system there, among other reasons. I agree that the politicians of today are nothing but corrupt, and hungry for power. I believe what needs to happen is a change in Congress. There should be new people put into Congress, who honestly want to make a good change for the country. That is only wishful thinking though.

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