What's wrong with that Flying Sno? It's a valid point. It happens more in science than you might expect. Not the God thing but the question itself.

People always want the believers to show proof, why can the believers want the nonbelieves to show their proof?

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Since nobody here understands it (even after spending months googling and reading), this debate simply leads nowhere. The most it achieves is "prove that god exists" versus "prove that god doesn't exist". This is a debate forum but how can we debate things that nobody here understands?

Edit for plagiarism. Burks

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"Creationism is an incredible pain in the neck, neither honest nor useful, and the people who advocate it have no idea how much damage they are doing to the credibility of belief." [A Christian scientist quoted in Easterbrook, 1997, p. 891].
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Critics of evolution are treated as intellectual outcasts not because they criticize evolution, but because they don't know what they are talking about. Answers In Genesis recognizes the problem of poorly educated creationists doing more harm than good to the reputation of creationists, so they devote a page to arguments creationists should not use [AIG n.d.]. Still, it is extremely common to hear creationists bring up their usual ignorance about the second law of thermodynamics, no transitional fossils, irreducible complexity, and other subjects, and AIG's list of bad arguments barely scratches the surface.

Way to copy and paste, stealing another person's work. I suggest rereading the rules on plagiarism at the top of the forum.

If you can claim God does not exist, then you can provide facts. Same goes the other way around if you really want to start a factual debate. There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing wrong with having a theoretical debate within reason. This debate is within reason. Even scientist don't have any idea. So to say we are wrong, is to say all scientist are wrong when dealing with the OP's topic. How do you think discoveries are made? Thinking outside the box. Everyone thought Einstein was a crackpot along with Hawking, yet they proved a majority of people wrong.

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Regardless if it was plagurism, its correct.

Proving it does exist is holding the burden. Trying to prove something that doesn't exist not existing is quit hard to do due to the fact that it doesn't exist.

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Scientific discoveries start from collecting facts and analyzing them. Einstein's ideas were accepted in science because of empirical evidence he presented. Evidence is what counts in science. Not "prove that god doesn't exist".

Just shut up. This is a debate about the source of all matter, not the definition of plagarism.
If you really have a problem with the definition, PM the mod, or an admin.
~Kikori

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"Creationism is an incredible pain in the neck, neither honest nor useful, and the people who advocate it have no idea how much damage they are doing to the credibility of belief." [A Christian scientist quoted in Easterbrook, 1997, p. 891].
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Critics of evolution are treated as intellectual outcasts not because they criticize evolution, but because they don't know what they are talking about. Answers In Genesis recognizes the problem of poorly educated creationists doing more harm than good to the reputation of creationists, so they devote a page to arguments creationists should not use [AIG n.d.]. Still, it is extremely common to hear creationists bring up their usual ignorance about the second law of thermodynamics, no transitional fossils, irreducible complexity, and other subjects, and AIG's list of bad arguments barely scratches the surface.

The whole point of religion and faith is that you don't need evidence to believe that something exists.

I accept that I don't have faith in a God, but I feel it is because the school I was in was strict, uncompromising and bullying in order to get what they wanted.


When I was four, I was told that if I kept missing church, I was headed for Hell, which I don't exactly think is right.

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"What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."- The last words of General John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in the American civil war

The origin of matter can be seen within the Big Bang theory? The beginning of the big bang theory is one infintesimly(sp?) small point that exists of entirely pure energy. This then explodes (which is the big bang) and as the distance of this "rip" as such expands the universe cools and its expansion slows down and as it slow down the energy condenses into matter.

There is no none source of this original point of pure energy, but its the earliest point of "matter" as such, to my knowledge that has been theorised.

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I have no problem with any definition, I agree with the definitions. What I do not agree is that definition applied to my post.

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So, let's skip all intermediate posts and return where we were many weeks ago:



and



The burden of proof is on the shoulders of claimant of positive existentialist claim.

[Disclaimer: this is a generally accepted debate principle, found in one or another wording in numerous sources that teach debate principles, and written completely by heart without copy-paste, therefore not plagiarism under any definition].

Is this better now?

[Disclaimer: this post is not off-topic as it is answer to Burk's not deleted and therefore obviously not off-topic questions posted in September 2008 and due to deleted posts the questions stand unanswered until today].



Actually we have to be more specific here - the "dot" is only a result of our so far limited understanding about the very first moments of the Universe (I mean - VERY FIRST, not what happened after Planck's time). The real situation could have been much more different and complicated and scientists are working hard to find out what really was there before Big Bang.

It is similar with black holes - they are usually described as having "singularity" in their centre, but if we could find the grand unifying theory of physics, the need for that singularity dot would disappear. "Singularity" exists because we don't have the "theory of everything" yet.

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"Creationism is an incredible pain in the neck, neither honest nor useful, and the people who advocate it have no idea how much damage they are doing to the credibility of belief." [A Christian scientist quoted in Easterbrook, 1997, p. 891].
---------------------------
Critics of evolution are treated as intellectual outcasts not because they criticize evolution, but because they don't know what they are talking about. Answers In Genesis recognizes the problem of poorly educated creationists doing more harm than good to the reputation of creationists, so they devote a page to arguments creationists should not use [AIG n.d.]. Still, it is extremely common to hear creationists bring up their usual ignorance about the second law of thermodynamics, no transitional fossils, irreducible complexity, and other subjects, and AIG's list of bad arguments barely scratches the surface.

Since "everything" has no end, it also has no beginning. What is, always was, and always will be.
That's not to say that god or any higher being has a set "plan" for anything.

But this argument is comparable to what makes up matter. sure atoms make up matter, but atoms are made of neutrons, protons, electrons, and those particles are made up of quarks and leptons which are made up of a series of string energies.... etc.

there's no pre beginning because there is no beginning.

More developments in quantum mechanics/string theory will probably allow us to dive deeper into this question.

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Everything. Time... No one knows. I once that a saying that was like this:
Time and wisdom, those are for people who understand it.
That was me. Made it up a while ago. Time is everything.

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Hidden: 

Kikori wrote:

Topsummoner wrote:

Riptide wrote:

I used to get you and J@n mixed up. Except your funnier. And nicer. Happy 21st bro!

Oh man Jan, you just got zinged by Riptide. How much does THAT suck?

Well, statistically speaking, slightly more than a giant suckusaur. A dire one.

PenguinGuy wrote:

Lets see if I remember how to play...

EX REX IS MAFIA SCUM FOURTHVOTER UNVILLAGE BLAH BLAH BLAH SCUM BLAH WINE IN FRONT OF ME BLAH BLAH META GAME BLAH BLAH BLAH SMELLS OF ELDERBERRIES BLAH

Right?

Matter and energy are the same thing when you get down to it. Matter came from the earliest instances of our universe with the premeival matter formed helium the lightest element, First generation stars used this helium to fuse into hydrogen and other heavier elements. As the first generation stars became to grow old and die the super nova's that they created in their deaths created exotic elements such as carbon. And so on until we've come to our Sun, which is formed from debris from an earlier generation star... In essence the carbon and other elements that comprise our bodies have come literally from the heart of a dying star. Matter cannot be destroyed or created.. yes, but they are in essence the same thing so therefore there is an equal amount of "stuff" just different percentages of Matter or energy. As for before the Big bang... scientists believe now that we inhabit not a Universe but rather a mutliverse... in which there are an infinite number of universes for every given scenario.

The matter in the world is like a bag full of chips.

Yes you can't create more because now the bag is empty. The world really started out in this pocket in space. Then someone opened it and the chips all fell out because they accidentally broke the bag.

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See, religion.

The most you can do with this topic is point out a possibility. The only beings that may know the answer are dead (in a religious afterlife where answers are given), the deity / deities that created the world, and Stephen Hawking.

Myself? I wish I could believe the system used in The World Ends With You is true, pretty much playing on the Multiverse idea.

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Goten is dead!

Did you read my previous post a little bit up the page? It's a given now that we inhabit not a universe but rather a multiverse.

No. I completely pulled the word "Multiverse" out of my rear end.
I'd still like to see (despite only now asking for) proof that scientists think that. It's not a "given" unless it can be proved, and it's kind of hard to prove that a separate universe is created where I don't make this post when I had the urge to skip it.

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Goten is dead!

Also, Starbuck's entire point is invalid because he completely mixed up hydrogen and helium. Hydrogen fuses into helium and then heavier and heavier elements. Hydrogen is the lighter than helium.

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Goten is dead!

Would this qualify as a pointless topic? I see the beginnings of a fight D:

Two cents: What if we're actually in a space between the atoms in the pile of dung I expelled from my body this morning? This universe is a pretty crappy place to be in my opinion.

-Wolf

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It's only a fight if people get offended by those who put on an "I don't care" façade, or if said actors get offended that people don't respect them for their actions.

And please, think about physics, not imagination. Your poop is, at the greatest, probably two pounds of mass. You alone are at least one hundred. The "space between the atoms" idea could only be possible if this universe was microscopic when compared to whatever universe dominates ours. That's the M.I.B. way to think of it, though. :3

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Goten is dead!