This says it all. I would have no problem with this if it was required for all students. I mean, come on. How many people become overweight AFTER college? A lot. What about those students who are not overweight but who drink themselves stupid every night? Is there a required class for that?

Good health habits should be taught to everyone if the school is so concerned about it's students. Singling those out who don't meet a certain BMI requirement is wrong and is offensive. How would you like to be measured and then required to take the fat class? I can't imagine that is a good feeling for anyone. Maybe the school is trying to motivate them by making them feel like crap about themselves but I don't think that is fair. There is a lot more to a person than how much they weigh.

__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.

Singling those out who don't meet a certain academic requirement is wrong and is offensive. How would you like to be tested and then required to take the remedial class? I can't imagine that is a good feeling for anyone.

...

Likewise, being "singled out" isn't wrong or offensive unless it's taken that way. Students can't meet basic skill levels in academics, they're placed in special classes. It's the same concept with weight. The school is requiring those who need this sort of class, whether they want to admit it or not (just like remedial students who insist they don't need their classes...), to take a course which is designed to help them.

~Paidea

__________________

When there's a debate going on using personal attacks and sarcasm is the sign of a poor arguer.



When are we technically not children anymore? Because in high school if you haven't taken your phys ed class yet and you're an eighteen year old senior, you still have to take it to graduate. Is there a rights violation going on there? Should we get rid of gym class, have every sort of food imaginable in the cafeteria so everyone can fulfill their pursuit of happiness by being able to eat whatever they want at school, etc? The bottom line here is that we have hundreds of "rights violations" imposed on us that are also good.



True enough, but again, I will reiterate that it's the RIGHT of the UNIVERSITY to choose their curriculum, just like it's the right of the student to choose not to attend the school. I will also repeat that the students don't have to lose weight or lower their BMI at all, they only have to participate. Everyone is debating the student's rights, but as I said before, there are a thousand parallels to be made that people accept without any fuss. When it comes down to it, like I said, it's all about semantics, not what's good or bad for anyone. Who's to tell them what's good for them? I don't know, the government's job is to do things for the common good and it could easily be argued that this is one of them, with deaths related to obesity being in the "obscene" range. What if I want to kill someone else for fun? It's my right of pursuit of happiness versus their right of life? Why does their right of life overtake my right to the pursuit of happiness?

As far as singling them out goes, I can agree that making everyone take the class would be an ideal way of doing it. But then again, Paidea put it really well and I don't think I can say it any better myself. On the other hand, with the class being only for overweight people, the instructor can focus a lot more on their type of problems whereas if the class were a mix of everyone, the scope of the content would have to be more wide. Less people also means smaller classes, and smaller classes mean more special attention. Also, there's no real point in making the kids who are already fit take the class, it's simply a waste of resources.

Bottom line, if the kids are ashamed of their weight and ashamed of being singled out, maybe they BELONG in the class?

__________________

Awesome Squall sprite courtesy of Goten! Check here if you'd like a runescape or game-themed sprite!

That makes no sense. Academics is kind of the whole point of school, so separating those out who need extra help to learn is logical. Weight loss is not the purpose of school.

__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.

The school is not requiring anyone to lose weight. The school is requiring those who have a specific BMI or higher to take a course designed to help them learn how to lose weight and live healthier lives. You're precisely correct, separating those out who need extra help is logical -- whether it be GPA or BMI.

~Paidea

__________________

So now can we separate out those who are ugly and teach them how to dress and wear make-up in the name of learning?
After all, it would help them in many ways (getting a job, spouse, happiness in general, etc.) later on.

This should be an elective class or be required for everyone. You have 2 students with the same major. They take all of the same classes except the fat guy has to take an extra class because he is fat. I highly doubt this class is free, so fat guy has to spend extra time and several hundred dollars more than thin guy to graduate. All for something that is not remotely related to his field of study or academics in general. It simply isn't fair. As the article said, health experts don't think the method is right or that it will even necessarily help anyone long term.

__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.

After due consideration, this probably isn't an issue worth being concerned about. The state of modern western education will undoubtedly render such a required physical education course to walking in a circle for a few minutes every class, and giving everyone full marks for "participation".

__________________

Imagine a perfect beach
Without a mermaid
Imagine a perfect hideaway
Without a time
Imagine a perfect Eden
Without a friend, without a serpent
"Feeling lonely and content at the same time,
I believe, is a rare kind of happiness"

Beauty is subjective, obesity is not.

But yeah, what Ead said is true. Best not to dwell on it.

~Paidea

__________________

Well. . . I wouldn't be for or against it based upon how the rule would work in the USA. I am against it based on the idea of it. . . That's silly to say that it's irrelevant because it's going to be unenforced.

Many things are unenforceable. . . so we can please both parties by saying "gotta stop obesity" then turn around to the other party and say "sup, this rule is irrelevant, it won't work" - Good idea. . well actually, that's a horrible idea.

I don't like the idea - no matter how well it fights (or doesn't fight, ROFL!) obesity.

We should all be able to decide what body weight is best for us and no one should pay for or make our decision either way.

By the way, Zilla absolutely has a good point..

__________________

What have you done for your village? Click here to join the RuneVillage Army!

Trade jobs, factory maintenance workers, etc.

Basically the jobs that no one wants to do anymore, because it does require physical labor.

__________________




"Civil disobedience is still disobience."

I have been to other countries and in other countries physical labor is more blue collar than US. . . from my experience.

__________________

What have you done for your village? Click here to join the RuneVillage Army!

I have no idea how people actually manage to get a BMI up at 30. I think raising awareness about this is important due to the medical consequences of having such a high BMI. I'm also aware that BMI isn't everything, though; a better system could probably take its place, but from what I know, such a high BMI isn't going to be due to inaccuracies of the system.

__________________
Tahu 1000 - Former Member

I just have a feeling that pink floyd would say "haha charade you are" to whoever supports this

__________________

What have you done for your village? Click here to join the RuneVillage Army!

I didnt read the whole thing, but unless the school is publicly funded, I see nothing wrong with it.

Oh look, its you again..



Because the right to the pursuit of happiness is given to you by the U.S. constitution and as written explicitly forbids it.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


An inalienable right enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, in addition to life and liberty; the right to pursue any legal activity as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

By the way, as a side note, I'm totally amazed to see you incriminating and persecuting fat people and condoning the idea of action for the common good when it comes to being fat while simultaneously arguing for individualism and isolationism defending the use of illegal drugs and their legalization. In fact, your attitude and ideaology towards this issue is almost a complete and total 360 from your perspective on the drugs issue, even though the two issues are not really that different.

__________________

As I said, I don't see the harm in asking students to take a fitness class that's required to graduate. If they'd rather not, they can switch schools. Who's more right? The university to decide what's included in the curriculum, or the student to not have such classes imposed on them? I still maintain that the university is in the right.

Overall, though, my views have changed incredibly. I don't really care about fat people, they can do whatever they like. As I said, I'm now ashamed of most of this argument as it is just ridiculous and even offensive on some levels.

It just struck me as a little pathetic that so many people were complaining about the class. But it hardly matters.

__________________

Awesome Squall sprite courtesy of Goten! Check here if you'd like a runescape or game-themed sprite!

Wow, this is an old thread. How'd it wind up getting necro'd twice, both times from almost a year old?

Looking back at this argument, I think it got sidetracked from the topic title: "Too fat to graduate?" isn't the right question. A BMI of 30 isn't "fat," it's clinically obese. Anything above 23 is considered overweight, but at 30+ there are serious health risks. I feel I touched on this earlier, but by that point the topic had basically run its course.

__________________
Tahu 1000 - Former Member