So I thought I'd make this topic so that anyone could give suggestions on what should be recorded in the stats starting with Paidea's game.

Here's what I have so far:

1. Win/Loss/Draw percentages (including Win/Loss/Draw as town/mafia/cult etc percentages)
2. Plays (as mafia/town etc.)
3. Percentages as a role
4. Uses of roles (number of investigations for example)
5. Successful/Unsuccessful use of roles (role-blocks could come into it)
6. Deaths (including deaths by certain roles/lynches)
7. Votes placed for and against, successful/unsuccessful as well as correct/incorrect (this is getting into more difficult territory).
8. Individual game stats (all of the above but for each game, as well as cumulative overall stats)

7 and 8 are probably quite difficult to keep track of, but I'll see how it goes. All these would be in the form of percentages as well as raw numbers.

So if anyone has suggestions, post them here.

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I'm not entirely sure stats are relevant in this sort of game, honestly. In a game whose outcome is so heavily determined by the roles picked by the host and random chance in what role you draw, this isn't a sort of game that one person can win on their own. Just to poke holes in the win/loss ratio alone, which players tend to die first? The ones who tend to be most vocal. Lurking players last the longest.

This also isn't information I would want people known about me, personally. Not because I feel it would influence my ability to win (it probably would), but because the only information I would be judged on is my ability to win and use a role. This isn't how we should be thinking of each other in these games. It's a social game, and it requires cooperation between players in the various factions. Last game I was absolutely appalled at how many times the word "good player" was thrown around as reasoning for anything, as well as the general attitudes when voting for other players. There's a lot of hostility in this game (there shouldn't be), and the last thing we need to do is be ranking our players and feeding that hostility.

I know a few people used to rank themselves on their signatures, let's just allow them to keep doing that. I believe you suggested trophies at one point though, Aragorn? I think that would be a much better compromise than running statistics. Stats are ambiguous, and ELOs mess up communities quick. If someone could design an MVP trophy picture for each side, or a single trophy for the winning faction to be awarded to the best player (or longest lived player), I think that would do a good job at recognizing individual abilities in a pro-social way.

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I hear what you're saying, blue. The intention of stats is not to rank players or anything like that, it's just for general interest. You wouldn't be allowed to use stats within a game, the same way you can't use the 'who is online' stat.

If everyone feels the same way as you about them then I won't go ahead with the idea. As for awards, I was planning on fleshing that idea out at some point in the next month or so.

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I like the idea of keeping track of wins and losses as each type of faction, but the other stats are rather meaningless unless we play the exact same classic variant many, many times. This is a result of too much variation in amount of players/types of roles/flavor of the game, etc.

I think at the end of the game everyone should be allowed one vote for MVP (including the host).

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I like everything you said argorn.
when i host, i will do as much as i can to help you out.

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Meta...metagame?

Some stats are not worth tracking, and this topic could be merged with 'next to host' list too.

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Why? I'd actually rather see the "Next to Host" topic be stickied as a queue. No reason to junk it up with other discussions (not that this discussion is junk).

Anyway, I'm not saying that in game people will use stats. No one does that in any game. However, de facto, people look at each other based on those win-loss records, in every game that has them. People make their decisions in this game based on their perceptions of other players moreso than any other game. Whereas in an FPS ELOs don't come into play until it's time to blame someone for the loss, in this game, I can definitely see the same 4 people with decent ELO rankings making every decision necessary in the game, just because people will be more likely to listen to them. We can tell ourselves that we WON'T use stats to make decisions, and we can make rules against it in the game. But the fact of the matter is we will. I target Monk because I know that no one protects him, Penguin targets Top because he reveres him, Paidea gets investigated because he consistently BSs roles, etc etc.

How are these behaviors going to change when suddenly there's a few people who, luck of the draw, got two consecutive mafia wins under their belt? If you guys want a mathematical argument, at the rate of mafia games we play in a year, mafia statistics will likely never hit a reasonable enough number to represent anything other than noise.

I think trophies are good enough, if not better. You're rewarding players who played respectfully and decently, and that's the sort of thing we should be encouraging. ELOs encourage winning at all cost, awards can encourage whatever we want them to. And in a game with any number of possibilities influencing gameplay, trophies are going to tell other people more about what kind of player the individual is than a ratio ever will.

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Which ones? I made this a topic on its own so that I could get specific input on this idea.

Okay, for now I'll track win/loss/draw percentages and plays.

Just a note: this wasn't in place of awards, they are something we should at the very least do. We could use this topic for discussion of those too, the MVP being the most obvious award to give post game. But what about after a set period, doing awards over a series of games? (could be limited to vanilla/ variants etc.)

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Posts per game day scaled to average game day length as scum, as town, and as town power are all the stats you'll ever need.

Worst idea ever. I use that information to pick targets for night actions. If EVERYONE picks up on that stuff, people'll just change tactics, and I'll be left without an advantage

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He's being sarcastic. Monk, when playing all-in, uses these statistics to (very successfully) root out mafia.

I'm down with the stats, but I guess I get what Blue is saying. To be honest, there already is a collective of players making most decisions in the game until they die, it's the nature of things.

I can agree that stats may be arbitrary at first, but think how it would be if someone had started doing this years ago.

I don't think these 'stats' will have any real bearing on the actual game. I agree that the stats shouldn't interfere or affect the actual game, so perhaps wins/losses should be the only one tracked. I mean...I don't see what the big deal is. I wouldn't look at anyone any differently if I knew how well they played as a role. Every game is different.

The only one I see as really hard to keep track of is the voting one.

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So was I.

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Okay, how about this as a compromise:

- We do an MVP after every game (if someone could design a logo or something that would be great).
- I'll retain stats ONLY of plays, win/loss/draw. Nothing more for now.
- After 5/10 games, we decide on a few other awards: best newcomer, best use of role, overall MVP.

How does that sound?

I could put a poll up about having stats at all if that's best?

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I'm all for stats. Stats of all kinds

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I can always retroactively collect stats if enough people want them, but for now let's just trial run a few limited stats.

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I know this topic is quite old, but I figure I'd give it a bump.

A few weeks ago I created an excel spreadsheet for keeping track of mafia statistics on the forum I regularly play on. Bear in mind the games are completely different so some/many of the statistics may not be as useful here.

Just in case anyone is interested in downloading and checking out the statistics though.

Apey's stats

Stats Template

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Guild Wars 2

~ Kudzu, Dreamer, Frostfang, Eternity, Flameseeker Prophecies ~
~ Nevermore, H.O.P.E, Moot, Incinerator, Meteorlogicus, Howler ~
~ WvW Rank 964, sPvP Rank 75, 25,437 AP ~

That's some seriously in depth stuff you've got going there, impressive. We only needed a fraction of that but for my game I'll fill the template out as best I can and see how it works.

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Havnt looked at template. I will just play. Then whatever gets tracked, gets tracked!

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Oh yeah, I went completely overboard out of boredom. More appropriate for games on the other forum, but even then still overboard. Easy enough just to remove stuff you don't need though.

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Guild Wars 2

~ Kudzu, Dreamer, Frostfang, Eternity, Flameseeker Prophecies ~
~ Nevermore, H.O.P.E, Moot, Incinerator, Meteorlogicus, Howler ~
~ WvW Rank 964, sPvP Rank 75, 25,437 AP ~