Mafia - Day 12: Knockin' on Heaven's Door (DEMONIC WINS)

FriskyAlpaca · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 2:06 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

Paidea wrote:

Paidea - Possessed nurse. Still our only form of doctor and most likely to die tonight anyway if the mafia have any say in it, so I feel it is still in our best interests to allow him to live tonight, he may save someone. His thoughts on Frisky help my gut instinct, as to me it looks like Paidea may be trying to divert attention away from the Demon. Cannot judge where his allegiance lies though, as he can probably win both ways.

It does not look like he is trying to divert attention away from the demon. If you read his post he is saying that he can win with the town and that it would be best to save him. If anything his response seems to be throwing the demon under the bus more than anything, which seems odd given Kikori's PM stating their primary objective is to protect the demon.

To summarize, I am still unsure of what to think of Paidea's admission to his role. It just feels off, also he mentions that he knows that the demon does not know who he is, which also strikes me as unusual, but if Aragorn is to be believed and given that we known once the demon is dead the person returns to their original alignment, a possessed mafia becomes regular mafia and most likely a possessed villager reverts to villager, it is probably best to not lynch him as killing the demon first would ensure his number is truly in the village category. The mafia cannot recruit so killing the demon is the best way to ensure the mafia hunt goes smoothly.

Phantomrose

FriskyAlpaca · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 2:26 pm

I forgot, FoS: Sayaka for the reasons stated by others and a big FoS: Dr. Henry, you are too inconsistent to not seem suspicious, in fact the first day I thought you were up to something, but with the Kikori stuff I decided to not derail the train.

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 5:20 pm

Seeing as everyone seems to be splitting the vote by going for Phantom, I'm going to switch too.

Dr Henry · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 6:49 pm

FriskyAlpaca wrote:

I forgot, FoS: Sayaka for the reasons stated by others and a big FoS: Dr. Henry, you are too inconsistent to not seem suspicious, in fact the first day I thought you were up to something, but with the Kikori stuff I decided to not derail the train.

So I nail you as the demon and suddenly you think I'm suspicious? :roll:

FriskyAlpaca

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 6:56 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

FriskyAlpaca wrote:

I forgot, FoS: Sayaka for the reasons stated by others and a big FoS: Dr. Henry, you are too inconsistent to not seem suspicious, in fact the first day I thought you were up to something, but with the Kikori stuff I decided to not derail the train.

So I nail you as the demon and suddenly you think I'm suspicious? :roll:

FriskyAlpaca

Surely we need to be lynching, so it would be better to get on board with a train, no point starting another that won't reach a lynch.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:10 pm

Paidea wrote:

stuff

Paidea

This is such utter bullshit. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone backpedal so fast in my life. Problem is, as someone pointed out, your major point is predicated on something that is entirely false. The demon wins with 100% control.

Furthermore, it alarms me that top is so blatantly supporting him. Though it seems none of the cultists know who eachother are, this could easily be a lie. Both of these people should know that unless Jack is a colossal Fuzzy Bunny

, Aragorn's nightkill would go through regardless of whether or not he's killed.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:12 pm

Furthermore, if Paidea is telling the truth, he should be public enemy number one for the mafia. But if they were smart, they'd leave him alive to confuse everyone. I won't give them the chance.

I'm really baffled as to why no one is prepared to lynch someone who is aligned with the demon. This should be a no goddamn brainer.

Dr Henry · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:20 pm

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Dr Henry wrote:

FriskyAlpaca wrote:

I forgot, FoS: Sayaka for the reasons stated by others and a big FoS: Dr. Henry, you are too inconsistent to not seem suspicious, in fact the first day I thought you were up to something, but with the Kikori stuff I decided to not derail the train.

So I nail you as the demon and suddenly you think I'm suspicious? :roll:

FriskyAlpaca

Surely we need to be lynching, so it would be better to get on board with a train, no point starting another that won't reach a lynch.

Mindlessly jump on board a train? What actual reason is being used to lynch Phantom? An experienced player who has just said they wont be around for the next few days so they can't defend themselves. Starting a train up against such a person just stinks of mafia involvement to me.

@Lander, I think my main reason for not voting Paidea is because he is still our nurse, and if he is anything like Kikori then he can still win with the town, so he will be able to block a mafia night kill at least... and the mafia would be silly to allow him to live because of that.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:29 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

@Lander, I think my main reason for not voting Paidea is because he is still our nurse, and if he is anything like Kikori then he can still win with the town, so he will be able to block a mafia night kill at least... and the mafia would be silly to allow him to live because of that.

Valid point.

But as I said. It's WIFOM with us and the mafia. Do they kill him outright, or let him live and split votes and detract from real scumhunting. They could easily pick off the more inactive members of the town or just take a crapshoot. With him theoretically trained on Aragorn, they have a free kill tomorrow night anyway.

Furthermore, Paidea could change his mind to suit the winningest side. Mislynch and mafia townie kill? He could decide real quick that the demon's faction looks a lot better. I don't want to take that chance.

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:31 pm

Landerpurex wrote:

Furthermore, if Paidea is telling the truth, he should be public enemy number one for the mafia. But if they were smart, they'd leave him alive to confuse everyone. I won't give them the chance.

I'm really baffled as to why no one is prepared to lynch someone who is aligned with the demon. This should be a no goddamn brainer.

I was suspicious that he missed that, but the main reason I'm not sure is his role is one of the best villager roles.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:35 pm

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Landerpurex wrote:

Furthermore, if Paidea is telling the truth, he should be public enemy number one for the mafia. But if they were smart, they'd leave him alive to confuse everyone. I won't give them the chance.

I'm really baffled as to why no one is prepared to lynch someone who is aligned with the demon. This should be a no goddamn brainer.

I was suspicious that he missed that, but the main reason I'm not sure is his role is one of the best villager roles.

Yeah, but what are the consequences here?

Who's to say he'll even try to use it on the town, rather than target the demon or cultists???

Dr Henry · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:38 pm

Landerpurex wrote:

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Landerpurex wrote:

Furthermore, if Paidea is telling the truth, he should be public enemy number one for the mafia. But if they were smart, they'd leave him alive to confuse everyone. I won't give them the chance.

I'm really baffled as to why no one is prepared to lynch someone who is aligned with the demon. This should be a no goddamn brainer.

I was suspicious that he missed that, but the main reason I'm not sure is his role is one of the best villager roles.

Yeah, but what are the consequences here?

Who's to say he'll even try to use it on the town, rather than target the demon or cultists???

Well he doesn't know who the demon is, he can only have suspicions like I myself do.

Apparently he doesn't know who his fellow cultists are, but I find that hard to believe.

Whoever he decides to use it on, there is still a chance that he blocks the mafia kill because, at the end of the day, cult or town, he doesn't want the mafia to win, so stopping them getting a kill is in his best interests.

Mafia needs <50% of the population, Demon needs 100%

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:39 pm

Landerpurex wrote:

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Landerpurex wrote:

Furthermore, if Paidea is telling the truth, he should be public enemy number one for the mafia. But if they were smart, they'd leave him alive to confuse everyone. I won't give them the chance.

I'm really baffled as to why no one is prepared to lynch someone who is aligned with the demon. This should be a no goddamn brainer.

I was suspicious that he missed that, but the main reason I'm not sure is his role is one of the best villager roles.

Yeah, but what are the consequences here?

Who's to say he'll even try to use it on the town, rather than target the demon or cultists???

Well...didn't think about that if I'm honest. Paid until you come up with a defence of this accusation.

PenguinGuy · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:45 pm

This has gotten interesting.

My first instinct is to vote for Paidea. The JoAT has identified him as cult, and he has admitted to it. Cult is the enemy of the town, so we want him dead. Anything he says should be thus disregarded. However, stated by him and by our JoAT, he's likely not dangerous. He has a healing power, and probably can win with the town. We can keep him alive for now in hopes he can win with the town and help us, but we have no idea if he's in fact telling the whole truth, and we can't even be certain that Kik told us the whole truth.

We shouldn't be listening to Paidea, he is an enemy of the town, we'd be naive to think otherwise. He could easily protect himself tonight and waste Aragorn's night kill, and we'll be in the same situation tomorrow with probably one more cultist and one less townie, with Paidea promising he won't do it again and he's good again.

If we let him live, we're trusting that he'll help us and not the cult. That's not a good idea. Paidea

FriskyAlpaca · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:47 pm

Paidea, I think the town has a pretty solid chance of winning regardless if we have a doctor or not. As long as the demon is killed, we should have the numbers to lynch the rest of the mafia.

Saten Ruiko · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:51 pm

I'm home now and it's time for a post with lots of quotes and rebuttals and trivia!

Also damn you guys are posting too fast. Please read this, as I think it'll provide more info.

Dr Henry wrote:

So Sighence, care to explain to us how you survived the night? Wasn't thanks to the doctor, so think up a role quickly or we will start thinking that if a demon tries to convert a mafia, it fails.

Voting for someone that was attacked overnight is still kinda suspicious, dude. Yeah, we all think Sighence is possessed now, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was Mafia, or that we should kill him over it. It's not like anyone learns about their attacker when a Doctor saves them, so why would this be any different? Granted Jackstick is doing a lot of weird things this game, but to instantly toss a vote his way less than 10 minutes into the day strikes me as odd.

Paidea wrote:

7. Sayaka - scummy. Faded out of the Kikori train yesterday. Was not "100% sure" but Kikori was even more obviously scum this game than last time. Regardless, did not vote for him.

If you're serious, you need to read the topic more. I can't "fade out of a train" when I was never even anywhere close to it. I made a total of two posts in Day 2--one was directed at Dr Henry, and the other was a response to FriskyAlpaca. You're also taking the "100% sure" thing out of context which seems really awkward. I'm not 100% sure anyone in this game is Mafia. YOU'RE not 100% sure anyone in this game is Mafia (unless you're Mafia I guess but nvm that). That whole post was referring to two games ago, when I was 100% sure Kikori was Mafia.

HOWEVER. Let me digress here for a moment because I'm positively fuming. With all of the above being said, I went to bed, and within three hours of that, all that crap went down and the day ended. You can be damn sure that I'd have been on that train if I had been awake, whether or not Kikori was Mafia, because what he did was entirely reprehensible. What a freaking Fuzzy Bunny

. Let me quote the rules for you:

Jackstick wrote:

No sharing any part of your role PM.

I'm sorry, what did that say?
Did that say "You can quote your role PM in its entirety"? Is that what it says, Kikori?
Lander claimed "I don't think it's against the rules" to quote a role PM in its entirety. Is that what it says, Lander?
Really? Because you might want to read it again.
Oh, wait. I misspoke. You can't read it "again".
Because neither of you even READ the rules a first time, did you?
HOW can you have the slightest bit of respect for THIS GAME, or for THE PERSON HOSTING IT, if you DON'T BOTHER TO ABIDE BY THEIR RULES?
If you don't even bother to READ the rules?
Are you literally TOO COOL to bother even CHECKING if this game is different from others you've played?
Are you too much of a VETERAN and PRO to assume you won't FRICKING MAKE JACK'S WORK FOR NAUGHT?
It boggles the mind.
It really does.

Since I'm already on the subject, as an additional aside, let me give you a history of that rule, because I'm the one that created it. There was always the "no screenshotting your PM" rule, but this wording was done by me.

Topsummoner wrote:

The way I look at it, and how it has been in the past, is paraphrasing your PM is completely fine as long as you are not directly quoting it, as there is no proof that what you paraphrase is true or not.

This is how I meant it as well. In Bifurcate Mafia Act II (link to post), Topsummoner stated his role PM (he claimed he was paraphrasing but really extremely little was changed), and Dr Henry corrobated his story because I used the exact same wording in Act I, and Top was instantly proved as a townie. At that point I went "HAHA OH Fuzzy Bunny

MY BAD", and in the very next game I hosted, the RVET Global Mafia, I added the new rule. (Jackstick obviously copy and pasted my rules, because Jackstick, we're not having a server move, dude. Jeez. That's kind of as bad as Lander and Kikori when you don't read your OWN rules.) So that's what that's about. You can say who you are, you can say what your win conditions and abilities are, but the moment you start quoting things word-for-word, you're being tremendously unfair to the host and to the other players.

Moving on.

Paidea wrote:

I am assuming that I'm multi-aligned, just like Kikori. Yes I am a possessed villager for one; I started the game that way. I am also the nurse, for two. I didn't have any powers until the doctor was killed. I am supposed to win when the Demon has total control, but I'm also unaware of the Demon's identity (and the Demon was unaware of mine, until now). If the Demon dies then I win when all the Mafia are dead.

I'll throw my role out there as well so you guys have more evidence to go on.

I am a possessed Villager as well, and I started the game that way.

HOWEVER.

I couldn't give a crap about the Demon. My win conditions are for the Demon to control 100% of the population, or if the Demon dies I become un-possessed and I win with the town by killing all the Mafia. I'd really rather do the latter. I don't like third-party victories, and I don't like the idea of helping a singular someone else win. I want the Demon dead as much as you guys do, and then I want to continue playing as a Villager.

That's being said, Paidea is telling the truth about at least one thing--we don't know who the Demon is. We don't even know who each OTHER are, Henry, so you're wrong about it being a typical "cult". I wouldn't have revealed myself if Paidea hadn't. With this in mind, I have two more quotes to reply to:

Dr Henry wrote:

Sayaka - I think he is possessed. Paidea's labelling of him gives me the impression that he knows this, and wants to 'help' the town to save his skin by throwing a cultist under the bus.

You're right about the first sentence, but wrong about the second, because Paidea didn't know I was possessed until now.

Market Man6 wrote:

I think we should hold off on killing paidea until the end of the day. This would enable us to continue hunting for the demon in the meantime.

This post gives me the impression that Market Man6 is also possessed and is thinking the same things that I have been.

TL;DR:
I want the Demon dead. I want the Mafia dead. I think lynching possessed Villagers is a bad idea. It's not a no-brainer, Lander. There are probably a lot more possessed than you or I think, and we shouldn't be targeting people we know are possessed (unless we really they're they're also Mafia of course.)

Dr Henry · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:55 pm

How many bloody people started this game possessed? Seems a bit too many, think someone is lying.

Saten Ruiko · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 7:57 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

How many bloody people started this game possessed? Seems a bit too many, think someone is lying.

Oh yeah, let me just claim to be possessed so you try to lynch me along WITH Paidea. Clearly my best strategy ever.

[Scoot] Oh, flood the ship some more, why don't you? That's a great idea, easy to fix!

:-s

Dr Henry · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 8:01 pm

Sayaka wrote:

Dr Henry wrote:

How many bloody people started this game possessed? Seems a bit too many, think someone is lying.

Oh yeah, let me just claim to be possessed so you try to lynch me along WITH Paidea. Clearly my best strategy ever.

[Scoot] Oh, flood the ship some more, why don't you? That's a great idea, easy to fix!

:-s

Didn't say you. Fact is, your post seems truthful. Paidea's (as pointed out by Lander) seems to be a big jumble of lies trying to save his own skin. Makes sense that you would start possessed, not him.

Dr Henry · **Posted:** March 21st, 2013, 8:06 pm

Paidea wrote:

I am assuming that I'm multi-aligned, just like Kikori. Yes I am a possessed villager for one; I started the game that way.

To clarify Sayaka, I don't think you are lying about being possessed, I think someone is lying about starting the game possessed as 3 original cultists plus the demon, plus recruiting whenever, seems a bit unlikely.

Mafia - Day 12: Knockin' on Heaven's Door (DEMONIC WINS)

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