Rat Telepathy (Warning: Nerdy)

bluecoat · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2013, 6:49 pm

http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130228/ ... 01319.html

Abstract wrote:

A brain-to-brain interface (BTBI) enabled a real-time transfer of behaviorally meaningful sensorimotor information between the brains of two rats. In this BTBI, an “encoder” rat performed sensorimotor tasks that required it to select from two choices of tactile or visual stimuli. While the encoder rat performed the task, samples of its cortical activity were transmitted to matching cortical areas of a “decoder” rat using intracortical microstimulation (ICMS). The decoder rat learned to make similar behavioral selections, guided solely by the information provided by the encoder rat's brain. These results demonstrated that a complex system was formed by coupling the animals' brains, suggesting that BTBIs can enable dyads or networks of animal's brains to exchange, process, and store information and, hence, serve as the basis for studies of novel types of social interaction and for biological computing devices.

Layman's terms: Two rats were trained to pull a certain lever if they saw a red light. After measuring a rat's brain activation in response to the red light a bunch of times and creating an average brain wave, they eventually removed the lever from that rat, and the red light from the other. A bit of training later, and they started taking electrical signals from the rat looking at the red light alone and comparing it against the average brainwave they made, and stimulating the other rat's brain in the exact same region to the exact same degree as the other rat's brain (example: Rat sees light, brain gets big reaction. Other rat's brain gets electrically stimulated to the point that it would have the same "big reaction", and pulls lever).

A few tons of hours of training later, and the second rat was able to hit the correct lever 70% of the time, going just off of the thought/hallucination/telepathic signal it received from the other rat. Then they did the experiment again, except this time with the rats on different continents.

Thoughts on this kind of stuff?

I'm a little skeptical of the practicality, personally, but any boost to brain computer interface technology is a good thing. Most of the research coming out right now is basically on cybernetic limbs and this could end up being just another addition to that pile of knowledge. The authors seem to think (or at least they've been telling the press) that it could be a big thing for crowd sourcing or some crap, but I'm not so sure that kind of cyberpunk stuff will ever happen.

Phantomrose · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2013, 7:05 pm

Hmm, I think it is interesting that they are testing this telepathy out, and that they are doing this kind of research.

Rat King · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2013, 8:15 pm

I've been able to do this for years. How do you think I've managed to control the rats and be their king for so long? But in all seriousness, that's pretty dang neat.

Market Man6 · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2013, 9:31 pm

i think that creating the artificial stimuli is more interesting than recording the first rats brain waves.

bluecoat · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2013, 10:15 pm

Market Man6 wrote:

i think that creating the artificial stimuli is more interesting than recording the first rats brain waves.

In essence, that's kind of what they were doing here. We aren't to the point of creating specific artificial stimuli yet because there's a lot we don't know about how the brain works, and really what those individual electrical spikes mean. I'm in a lab that works with one called the visual P3/P300, and it's easily been one of the most heavily studied evoked potentials (brain wave segments) of the last 50-ish years... and we still know very little about it. We know it's a marker of working memory (thinking about stuff while you're doing it), and we've been able to figure out where it's coming from and what sorts of things make you generate it, but not a whole lot else. There's actually debate over whether or not it's two different brain waves, whether it's part of a larger class of wtf brain waves, and even what to freaking call it (hence, P3/P300).

As far as creating stimuli that aren't there, we can poke the brain and make it do stuff. Cortical stimulation can make you taste things, make you feel emotions, pretty much whatever. But we still don't quite know how the brain encodes signals. Is that P3 I mentioned you recognizing something as matching something else you're thinking about, or is it just a representation of actual thought? A question that might come up for inducing a specific hallucination is which neurons do you stimulate to make sure that taste is strawberry? How much stimulation? Do you have to stimulate other ones?

That's kind of the cool thing here: Instead of "guessing", they just send the brainwave from another rat into in the one they want to "see" the red light.

Which also makes some problems. What is the rat "seeing", if anything? Is it actually seeing a red light like the other rat, or is it a different thing altogether? We can't really know, because that rat can't very well tell us. And there's obviously some disconnect, because it still took a crapton of training to get those rats up to 70% anyway. If you want to be able to make people hallucinate to artificial stimuli, this article is still a good first step... although I don't really see why you want to do that :?:

Market Man6 · **Posted:** March 4th, 2013, 8:17 am

That's your job!!?? Whoaaaaa

Kikori · **Posted:** March 4th, 2013, 9:22 am

bluecoat wrote:

If you want to be able to make people hallucinate to artificial stimuli, this article is still a good first step... although I don't really see why you want to do that :?:

Advertisement.

Nate · **Posted:** March 5th, 2013, 7:44 pm

bluecoat wrote:

If you want to be able to make people hallucinate to artificial stimuli, this article is still a good first step... although I don't really see why you want to do that :?:

I believe the main hope behind this is that it will lead to advancement in technology to assist the disabled, so for example helping a quadroplegic become more independent with the use of artificial hands. Still a long way off anything like that happening though, unlikely to happen in our lifetimes.

bluecoat · **Posted:** March 5th, 2013, 9:29 pm

Nate wrote:

bluecoat wrote:

If you want to be able to make people hallucinate to artificial stimuli, this article is still a good first step... although I don't really see why you want to do that :?:

I believe the main hope behind this is that it will lead to advancement in technology to assist the disabled, so for example helping a paraplegic become more independent with the use of artificial hands. Still a long way off anything like that happening though, unlikely to happen in our lifetimes.

It's closer than you think

[youtube]76lIQtE8oDY[/youtube]

You are right though, this could be a step in creating artificial limbs with senses of "touch"... God I love my discipline.

Nate · **Posted:** March 6th, 2013, 5:50 am

Wow, didn't realise the technology had gotten that far!

Now the next question is whether the people developing that intend simply to recover what they spent, actually trying to help people or squeeze as much money out of it as possible by making it affordable only to the super rich.

Arya · **Posted:** March 7th, 2013, 8:07 am

Nate wrote:

Now the next question is whether the people developing that intend simply to recover what they spent, actually trying to help people or squeeze as much money out of it as possible by making it affordable only to the super rich.

Most likely the super rich :\

Like with everything the not "Benjamin Gates" get everything after it's been used.

Kanye West · **Posted:** March 25th, 2013, 8:11 pm

i don't believe in science

Dom3k · **Posted:** March 25th, 2013, 8:13 pm

Kanye West wrote:

i don't believe in science

Jigga wat? Don't get me jay z on you.

Rat Telepathy (Warning: Nerdy)

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