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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 8:18 pm 
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Christopher wrote:
The one chance for it to be removed is if any player can successfully pursue a gambling lawsuit against Jagex, which I imagine not being very likely. For all technical purposes there could probably be a case here but I can't imagine a player caring enough to hire a lawyer and pursing said lawsuit.
I doubt it, not when you have so many other games like FlyFF that run primarily on cash shops and have had in-game gambling events for years.

The difference is that RuneScape always said they wouldn't be that guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 8:29 pm 
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Actually the difference is that it's a straight up money transaction for a gamble. Cash shops are fair game because that's considered merchandise. There's a ton of laws and junk being sited about this on the RSoF that I don't care to look for. There's also the concern that the playerbase is mainly minors.

But yeah considering the prizes are all virtual I doubt it would hold up in court.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 9:14 pm 
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Christopher wrote:
The sad reality is that it's not going to be removed. No outcry will be large enough. Only the money matters, and very few players actually care enough to cancel their subscriptions over this.

The one chance for it to be removed is if any player can successfully pursue a gambling lawsuit against Jagex, which I imagine not being very likely. For all technical purposes there could probably be a case here but I can't imagine a player caring enough to hire a lawyer and pursing said lawsuit.


I dunno about that. Look at the outcry about the wilderness and the trade limit, and Jagex was effectively losing money to RWT and they reinstated them.

I'm just so disgusted by this. They DID say they'd never be that company, and that was one good thing that set RS apart from other games. :down:

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 9:32 pm 
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Christopher wrote:
Actually the difference is that it's a straight up money transaction for a gamble. Cash shops are fair game because that's considered merchandise. There's a ton of laws and junk being sited about this on the RSoF that I don't care to look for. There's also the concern that the playerbase is mainly minors.

But yeah considering the prizes are all virtual I doubt it would hold up in court.

Cash shops in Korean MMOs have been doing this sort of thing for years, they usually sell packs with a selection of items in them and you receive a random one of those items when you open them. Lists of rewards from SoF are accessible so I doubt any lawsuit would hold much weight. Some companies just like exploiting children who have access to their parent's wallets.

The difference between the Korean MMOs I mentioned and Runescape is that the Korean MMOs are free-to-play with an optional subscription which usually only offers things like higher experience rates and convenience. For Runescape to require a necessary subscription to access most features of the game AND have micro-transactions is a terrible business model. Other western MMOs such as Dungeons and Dragons Online have implemented "freemium" models where micro-transactions are optional and still obtainable in-game with no subscription required. DDO has gained millions of paying players since it switched over to this model.

Jagex needs to choose one business model. They can't have both and expect people to keep paying.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 9:50 pm 
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Landerpurex wrote:
I dunno about that. Look at the outcry about the wilderness and the trade limit, and Jagex was effectively losing money to RWT and they reinstated them.

Years later, after the outcry was long since over and accepted. Jagex stuck to their guns and only reversed the free trade/wildy after Andrew sold out and Jagex became an investor-run company. It was a ploy for the investors to make a quick buck off the returning veterans.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 6:00 am 
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Landerpurex wrote:
Nate wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
Glodenox wrote:
People, also be aware that if you subscribed with your credit card, your credit card is most likely bound to your account! So if someone should happen to take over your account somehow, your credit card might be used by that person in order to buy spins on the squeel of fortune (and as such more cash to move to their own accounts).

Solution: cancel your subscription and remove your credit card from your account. To remove your credit card, start the steps to start/extend your subscription and there's a link to manage your credit cards on the page where you choose which package you want to buy. Click that link and delete your card if you want to stay safe.

Greetings,
Glodenox


That's great advice, Glode; especially with the rash of hackings as of late.

Is it (more) secure if you use paypal to pay for your subscription?

It's also worth noting that IF someone were to obtain your information and use it to buy spins, I assume it would count as credit card fraud, which is a felony. That'd be a really, really dumb thing to do as an amateur hacker trying to get a leg up on Runescape.


Not really, considering the chances of getting caught.

I can't put into words how much I hate Jagex right now.


Considering your chances of being caught? Nevermind the fact that anyone's IP can be traced. Change your infraction from petty hacking and stealing in-game items to a felony charge, and you're looking at real effort to figure out who these people are.

I'm not advocating poor security or anything, I'm just speculating on the stupidity of people who like to steal from runescapers.


Probably most of Runevillage have been hacked at some point or another (myself included, been hacked twice, lost my first account and never got it back), and in most cases the perpetrators don't get punished. Think how much crime happens on the internet compared to how often people get prosecuted for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 6:43 am 
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I was hacked last week. Just think, had it been a week later I could have been Fuzzy Bunny so hard by the damage that a hacker could not do.
If I were hacked and a bill was racked up, I would genuinely file a lawsuit against Jagex.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 6:53 am 
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Christopher wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
I dunno about that. Look at the outcry about the wilderness and the trade limit, and Jagex was effectively losing money to RWT and they reinstated them.

Years later, after the outcry was long since over and accepted. Jagex stuck to their guns and only reversed the free trade/wildy after Andrew sold out and Jagex became an investor-run company. It was a ploy for the investors to make a quick buck off the returning veterans.


I'm not so sure about that. The outcry died down, but I don't think it ever died out. I know I was pissed off right up until they reinstated it.

@Nate: Simon proves my point here. It sucks to lose all your hard-earned items, but the perpetration is taken to another level when credit card info is accessed, and/or used.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 8:37 pm 
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Landerpurex wrote:
I'm not so sure about that. The outcry died down, but I don't think it ever died out. I know I was pissed off right up until they reinstated it.

I'm still pissed off that they gave the Penance skirt the stats of rune legs for a whole 6 hours before reversing them because I bought them within those 6 hours thinking FINALLY THEY'RE KIND OF USEFUL. There's a difference between the players not liking an aspect/change of the game and players actively speaking out against said aspects/changes.

If Jagex was going to reverse the free trade/wildy changes based on player outcry, it would have happened in the first month. That's when the majority of players spoke out and went as far as to cancel their memberships. It was a huge blow to the company but they stuck by it for the greater good of the game. After a year passed, the outcries had subsided and began shifting to a begrudging acceptance. Another year passed and free trade had become a nostalgia such as RSC; People still missed it, but the majority of players had moved on.

Then Andrew sold out and shareholders began making the calls. They brought back wildy/free trade with a total disregard for the consequences purely for the novelty and memberships of the players they knew would return. It was a gimmick and equal to stabbing the game in the same area it had just finished healing. Few existing players cared about it anymore until they pulled the wildy/free trade poll stunt.

But this is getting away from the point.

Jagex has gone on record to ignore negative feedback far more often than to be receptive of it. They won't be removing the purchase of SoF spins based on player outcry. It's just not going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 8:39 pm 
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Goten wrote:
Few existing players cared about it anymore until they pulled the wildy/free trade poll stunt.

Could you tell me some more details about that? Just curious. I haven't been active enough in RS to know about that stunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 9:30 pm 
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Jackstick wrote:
Goten wrote:
Few existing players cared about it anymore until they pulled the wildy/free trade poll stunt.

Could you tell me some more details about that? Just curious. I haven't been active enough in RS to know about that stunt.

Jagex ran a referendum on the front page from 21-Dec-2010 until 14-Jan-2011 asking if players wanted free trade and the wilderness added back into the game.

Final Results:
91% - Yes
7% - No
2% - Don't Care

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 9:56 pm 
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Jackstick wrote:
Goten wrote:
Few existing players cared about it anymore until they pulled the wildy/free trade poll stunt.

Could you tell me some more details about that? Just curious. I haven't been active enough in RS to know about that stunt.
It was a big topic on here, too. Look at the Criticism section on the page Freeascar linked--it was all pretty bogus, honestly.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 5th, 2012, 9:12 pm 
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Not even slightly surprised.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 5th, 2012, 10:04 pm 
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http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Squeal_of_Fortune

Financial Security wrote:
If a member is paying by credit card, and the credit card information has been saved with Jagex, there is no identity verification between clicking the in-game "buy spins" button and confirming the transaction. This means that someone with unauthorized access to a RuneScape account can turn up to $200/day of the rightful owner's money into Squeal spins. Since there is no option to disable spin purchasing on an account, it is also possible for children whose parents pay for their RuneScape membership to spend their parents' money on Squeal spins without their knowledge. These issues have provoked accusations that Jagex is violating laws concerning customer data protection. Jagex has replied with reminders to keep your RuneScape login information secure.
Additionally, they changed their Terms and Conditions[1][2], effective 2nd April, 2012 to avoid lawsuits by adding a line in the Subscription section:

"We reserve the right to charge you for any unauthorized use of your subscription by third parties."

I would laugh if I wasn't genuinely disgusted.

Jagex officially has no shame whatsoever.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 6th, 2012, 11:00 am 
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Holy Fuzzy Bunny, Goten.

Just holy Fuzzy Bunny. I've honestly never seen such shamelessness, even in big corporations. At least they pretend to care, sometimes.

It basically says "we're not responsible if you get ripped off. Actually, we'd like it! And WE'LL charge YOU if your account is abused by someone else!"

Gah.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 6th, 2012, 1:41 pm 
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Surely as someone who agree'd to terms set ~8-10 years ago, these new terms do not apply to me. I have not agree'd to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 6th, 2012, 4:17 pm 
:D Panda tyme!
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I'm pretty sure it states it is your responsibility to stay up to date on the terms of use thereby accepting them as is by logging into and using an account. So...

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Nice. It's like codeporn.

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IS that technically called slavery?

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 6th, 2012, 8:17 pm 
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Christopher wrote:
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Squeal_of_Fortune

Financial Security wrote:
If a member is paying by credit card, and the credit card information has been saved with Jagex, there is no identity verification between clicking the in-game "buy spins" button and confirming the transaction. This means that someone with unauthorized access to a RuneScape account can turn up to $200/day of the rightful owner's money into Squeal spins. Since there is no option to disable spin purchasing on an account, it is also possible for children whose parents pay for their RuneScape membership to spend their parents' money on Squeal spins without their knowledge. These issues have provoked accusations that Jagex is violating laws concerning customer data protection. Jagex has replied with reminders to keep your RuneScape login information secure.
Additionally, they changed their Terms and Conditions[1][2], effective 2nd April, 2012 to avoid lawsuits by adding a line in the Subscription section:

"We reserve the right to charge you for any unauthorized use of your subscription by third parties."

I would laugh if I wasn't genuinely disgusted.

Jagex officially has no shame whatsoever.



unbelievable.
well, ending subscription in about 15 minutes. no way will my credit card be associate with jagex. for any reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 6th, 2012, 8:29 pm 
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Market Man6 wrote:
Christopher wrote:
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Squeal_of_Fortune

Financial Security wrote:
If a member is paying by credit card, and the credit card information has been saved with Jagex, there is no identity verification between clicking the in-game "buy spins" button and confirming the transaction. This means that someone with unauthorized access to a RuneScape account can turn up to $200/day of the rightful owner's money into Squeal spins. Since there is no option to disable spin purchasing on an account, it is also possible for children whose parents pay for their RuneScape membership to spend their parents' money on Squeal spins without their knowledge. These issues have provoked accusations that Jagex is violating laws concerning customer data protection. Jagex has replied with reminders to keep your RuneScape login information secure.
Additionally, they changed their Terms and Conditions[1][2], effective 2nd April, 2012 to avoid lawsuits by adding a line in the Subscription section:

"We reserve the right to charge you for any unauthorized use of your subscription by third parties."

I would laugh if I wasn't genuinely disgusted.

Jagex officially has no shame whatsoever.



unbelievable.
well, ending subscription in about 15 minutes. no way will my credit card be associate with jagex. for any reason.
I already ended mine earlier this week, haha. I was in no hurry to do so earlier but because of this development it's better safe than sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting extra spins in the squeal of fortune
PostPosted: April 6th, 2012, 10:10 pm 
:D Panda tyme!
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Soo... Who else loves the irony of runevillage out living runescape, even after our estrangement.

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Jackstick wrote:
Nice. It's like codeporn.

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n00b 4 m1nin wrote:
Dakota Lesmercy wrote:
IS that technically called slavery?

Dakota.


Slavery with payment and education, the perfect disguise.

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