Pretty much explained by the title. If the whole Catholic church vanished tommorow, what affect would it have on the World? Try and discuss the effect it would have on politics, as well as whether the world would be better or worse.


Inb4 preists rape children, this is a weak argument that I hope this debate does not descend into. The priests commiting the crimes would simply become non-priests committing the crimes.

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I see the Catholic Church as being irrelevant to modern society and politics, relatively speaking according to its past. That was a central concern of Pope John Paul II when he was alive and openly talked about the issue. The Western world certainly has deep cultural ties to Catholicism, so if anything I see a cultural paradigm shift than anything overtly political.

I'm rather indifferent to Catholicism. I went to a Catholic school for my first two years of elementary school, but otherwise I haven't really had any ties to it.

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Northern Ireland is very divided between Protestants and Catholics but I suppose if the catholic church never existed then people would still argue over being a Unionist or a Nationalist.

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One of the major factors in Northern Ireland's unrest is that people are scared of being persecuted if they live in a country where they are a minority. While there would still be division between unionism and nationalism if there was only one major christian denomination, it would probably be less hostile.

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"What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."- The last words of General John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in the American civil war

I believe, without the Catholic church, the world would be a bit better. I mean, the Catholic church is corrupt, and has caused quite a stir throughout history. Even it today's society the church is still causing a stir, regarding the recent molestation charges. I think the International Courts might take the case.

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Here's some relevant propaganda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ1_aQz6IuU

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I don't understand the scenario.

Does the world have any recollection of the church after it vanishes? What causes it to vanish? Did those of Catholic faith all wake up one morning and think "Man, we are so silly. The hindus are obviously way more spot on about this stuff. Let's all convert!"

Or is it just like it never existed in the first place? Are we considering the retroactive effects that a lack of the Catholic church would have had on society in decades past?

CONTEXT MAN. (The best superhero.)

I would argue, and this is supported by the papal bulls mentioned, that those are not real priests. However the purpose of the debate is not to focus on this issue.

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Holiday catholic here. Gonna have to agree that the changes would be more cultural than anything. I don't see a major impact on the world one way or the other.

In response to anyone who brings up the Crusades, events of the Protestant Reformation, and other things that the church has done that was wrong (I saw someone alluding to them): I don't see a huge bearing on the current discussion. In that time period the church was as much a political entity as a religious one, if not moreso, and subject to the same responses a country might make to a given situation. Byzantine empire in a spat with the Islamic empire? Send in the troops! The people say they aren't going to listen to us anymore? [What amounts to] Civil war! Nowadays the church is more of a company than anything in my eyes. They screwed up, but they aren't the same Vatican anymore.

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Depends how far you go back, the Roman Empire used religion to unify itself to an extent and the papal states were only made strong by the Catholic Church. If we eliminate them today however, the world wouldn't be a great deal different. The policy change on use of condoms in Africa would be significant however.

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On topic: Without the Catholic Church i would say there would be fewer 'Holy Wars'.

off topic: Without religion i believe the whole world would be less civilised, no marriages and possibly no games due to lack of civilisation.

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Thanks Lou for the help with the avatar.

That's a pretty good point about Africa, but the question is, would Ethiopia be willing to change?

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Religion was obviously beneficial to the evolution of society, wars and conflicts aside; It gives people a common interest, a purpose to work towards, and answers to life's questions. Within the Western religions, at least, it has also instilled society with moral values. I think the main question in regards to this would be whether or not society as of today would do better in disregarding religious beliefs in pursuit of a more scientific understanding of the universe, and a moral system based on social obligation more than spiritual beliefs of right and wrong.

This is, of course, an entirely different debate.

Pretty sure the question is:

"If the Catholic Church seized to exist tomorrow, but with all prior events still existing and recurring in the public's minds, how would the world change?"

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It's definitely a different debate however I can only assume you mean if it never existed to begin with. *Resists urge to respond to this any further*

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I would still wonder what caused it to cease existing. Are we talking like a mass genocide of Catholics? A sudden choice of every Catholic to convert or disregard all religious beliefs, caused by some unforeseen mental compulsion? Zeus peaking through the clouds and being like "Yo, dudes, you're all wrong, now start worshiping me"?

Because I think if a religion were to just suddenly stop being a thing, the effects (or lack there of) that it would have would be vastly overshadowed or completely irrelevant. The main focus would be what stopped the religion from existing, leading to confusion, panic, etc. - The cause would be of much greater importance than the hypothetical effects that the lack of a religion would have on society and politics.

The only possible way to even make this a valid topic for debate would be through use of an alternate reality where the Catholic church never existed (which would cause need to examine the effects that its absence would have on history before considering its effects in present day), or through use of a hypothetical future where Catholic faith has slowly died out or something.

Hypothetical scenarios are fine but if they're too drastic then it's hard to give valid, accurate thought to the effects. At least for me. I don't think anybody would be able to ignore that an entire faith disappeared overnight.

I know what you're getting at but unfortunately alternative reality where the Catholic Church or Religion don't exist are even worse hypotheticals to debate about. We have no idea what our world would be like if these things had never existed and really even guessing is pointless. The world could be in absolute chaos or we could be much better off.

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The world would be part of an Islamic caliphate. No thanks.

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I'm just kind of wondering how this topic even exists.
The entire premise is offensive and terrible.
The very fact that mods haven't closed it is beyond me.. I'll explain

I could post examples of greater corruption.. trust me.
My own brothers went to New Orleans after the disaster with a rebuild and help the recovery.
Unlike other churches... Catholics don't run around saying "hey this is who we are this is why we're helping"
We just help, do what we can and live by example and help when it's needed.. if they ask we'll tell em.
But it goes back to
"for who's glory do you pray and worship? for his glory or your own?"

Second set...

Really? a topic "would the world be better without the Catholics?"

How about we turn this a little uglier?
What would the world be without the Jews? Muslims? Africans? Hinduism?
Oh hey... suddenly we went from some form of acceptable bashing to racism and prejudice.

So I'm going to put this out there that it's not suddenly acceptable to bash on a religion or group or creed
just because it seems more culturally acceptable to!

If somebody made a "Things would be better/worse without Jews" topic it woulda been locked faster than you can imagine.


Even if you try saving what is essentially a hate-topic by turning it into an alternate history debate.
It's still what it is at the core. Petty religion bashing hate.

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While I do agree that this topic pushes a boundary in its essence, I think it's a little far to accuse it of being a religion bashing topic.

The question proposed is basically to what effect the Catholic religion has on society, and if these effects are generally positive or negative. Does it leave the floor wide open for bashing? Yeah. But the topic itself just inquires the effects that the church has had on the world, and what effects its disappearance would bring.

It's like asking if a donut would be better without sprinkles. Some people love the sprinkles, other people think they taste funny. Yet if this topic were about donuts, nobody would accuse it of sprinkle bashing.