Mafia 15 - A Party Game - Day 8

Dr Henry · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 5:53 pm

Landerpurex wrote:

Doc Henry's recent rise in activity kinda bothers me. If I'm not mistaken, the first meaningful post you made was late on D2 when you said something about both kikori and I both being scum. It could be him getting into his groove. Also...what exactly are you getting at, Doc? What are you hoping to accomplish with that vote? You've accused me of being mafia and of consorting with kikori and this whole recruit thing is a ruse...all I can say is "No, I'm not scum. No, it's not a ploy." Since that's the only piece of evidence you have, I can't really refute it or defend myself. I will say two things: I wasn't kidding when I said I wouldn't be ready for another mafia role after mafia 14. Did you read that thread? I poured my damn heart and soul into that game, there's no way I'd be trying a fake recruiter thing now, if ever; for this very reason. Trying to falsify anything as scum instantly puts you in the limelight. I'd also argue that kikori would never take that kind of initiative if he were scum as well. I was suspicious of him defending me at first but...he's not deviating from his usual playstyle, so either I'm paranoid or he's finally decided to give being scum a proper run. His not wanting to attack kikori either strikes me as strange, he's pretty much covered all of his butts here. If kikori comes up as scum, he's right. If kikori comes up town, he's also right. :/

Secondly, it's really easy for people to latch onto the whole lander and kikori thing and speculate on that rather than try to scumhunt people who are less involved. Inactives are always, always mafia's number one problem, and if we don't get them posting now, we'll be screwed after all of our active players are killed off. So in this regard I find Doc's whole spiel as well as his vote suspicious.

Firstly, "recent activity rise". I missed the entire Day 2 because, if you must know, my girlfriend is moving away on sunday and I'm out trying to spend time with her, I get back home and the day has swept by with you all having trained on Mentos :/ but I had time to make a post at least.

Also, I haven't read through the mafia 14 because well... I have a life... so no, but just because "you aren't ready" to be a mafia role again, does that mean if you were you'd just ragequit? Or will you use that as a defence for any accusations. Of course as scum you would argue in favour of Kikori not doing the fake recruitment scheme, but that does not mean he wouldn't. Twice trying to disprove what I'm saying by just saying "well, we wouldn't do that" strikes me as scummy.

I think you and Kikori misunderstand me here. I'm fairly certain of you being mafia, Lander, and am quite sure that Kikori is also, however I need more time to collate my thoughts on Kikori to be sure, and a lot of that depends on the outcome of your death. My connections are my own for as long as I want them to be, and to some they may not make sense but to me they do. I'm not afraid of attacking you Kikori, however in some of the multitude of possibilities as to what role you *could* be, sided with any faction, I cannot work out what you are at this present moment, and rather than attack both of you at once, I have only one vote for a lynch so I chose Lander, whom I am more sure of.

Lander = mafia.

Also, to those trying to get a scope on me by reading my "typical playstyle" try to remember that I haven't played for a while, I can't even remember myself how I used to play so I don't know how you all are.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 7:14 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

Also, I haven't read through the mafia 14 because well... I have a life... so no, but just because "you aren't ready" to be a mafia role again, does that mean if you were you'd just ragequit? Or will you use that as a defence for any accusations. Of course as scum you would argue in favour of Kikori not doing the fake recruitment scheme, but that does not mean he wouldn't. Twice trying to disprove what I'm saying by just saying "well, we wouldn't do that" strikes me as scummy.

Firstly, are you aware as to whom you're talking to? It wasn't a "defense" of any kind, just a point. Secondly, the "well, we wouldn't do that" is about all I can say, and it's the truth, to boot. All you're saying is "Lander is scum, lander is scum, kikori is likely scum too but I haven't decided whether or not he has a role so he might not be scum, they're staging this recruitment thing, lander is scum", you haven't presented any other evidence other than a gut instinct, apparently. To which I can only say "No I'm not, no I'm not, it's entirely possible, no we're (I'm) not, no I'm not." This is just going to be a vicious circle because you've apparently latched onto one thing and am sure I'm mafia because of it, with no other evidence behind you. Also I'd love to point out that I didn't just say "we'd never do that" I said that and then went on to explain myself, that doing things like this would unnecessarily put me in the spotlight, which is where I wouldn't want to be as scum. Thanks for reading. :?:

Doc wrote:

I think you and Kikori misunderstand me here. I'm fairly certain of you being mafia, Lander, and am quite sure that Kikori is also, however I need more time to collate my thoughts on Kikori to be sure, and a lot of that depends on the outcome of your death. My connections are my own for as long as I want them to be, and to some they may not make sense but to me they do. I'm not afraid of attacking you Kikori, however in some of the multitude of possibilities as to what role you *could* be, sided with any faction, I cannot work out what you are at this present moment, and rather than attack both of you at once, I have only one vote for a lynch so I chose Lander, whom I am more sure of.

Lander = mafia.

Also, to those trying to get a scope on me by reading my "typical playstyle" try to remember that I haven't played for a while, I can't even remember myself how I used to play so I don't know how you all are.

Like I said, you've yet to present me with any real, specific reasons as to your suspicions other than the aforementioned. Until you do that, I don't suppose I have much else to say.

Kikori · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 8:42 pm

Tahu 1000 wrote:

On the Lander/Kikori issue, I'd like to ask a question: Kikori, do you have any reasoning or evidence beyond what you have currently posted that would substantiate Lander as a pro-town role? I think your reasoning is sound, except that you easily dismiss the idea that Lander is playing at "200%." It seems as though this could easily dissolve into a WIFOM. I don't really have any reasons to explicitly distrust Lander, but I'm trying to weigh your defense of him.

Nope. I was given an offer to join the mafia via PM through Paidea, I refused, and based on both Lander's previous statements of not wanting to give it his all and the fact that I was targeted, I believe him to be a villager. It's in no way confirmed by a role, just a freakin' suspicion.

Quote:

Also, I haven't read through the mafia 14 because well... I have a life... so no, but just because "you aren't ready" to be a mafia role again, does that mean if you were you'd just ragequit? Or will you use that as a defence for any accusations. Of course as scum you would argue in favour of Kikori not doing the fake recruitment scheme, but that does not mean he wouldn't. Twice trying to disprove what I'm saying by just saying "well, we wouldn't do that" strikes me as scummy.

While I could be immature and take that as you calling anyone who'd read a topic for metagame purposes someone without a life, I'll instead just call you lazy for not reading seventeen pages of posts that are mostly short until the end. Regardless, if you don't take the time to understand the situation, I doubt that gives you much credibility when you're trying to conflict someone's statements about the metagame.

Quote:

I think you and Kikori misunderstand me here. I'm fairly certain of you being mafia, Lander, and am quite sure that Kikori is also, however I need more time to collate my thoughts on Kikori to be sure, and a lot of that depends on the outcome of your death. My connections are my own for as long as I want them to be, and to some they may not make sense but to me they do. I'm not afraid of attacking you Kikori, however in some of the multitude of possibilities as to what role you *could* be, sided with any faction, I cannot work out what you are at this present moment, and rather than attack both of you at once, I have only one vote for a lynch so I chose Lander, whom I am more sure of.

Lander = mafia.

Also, to those trying to get a scope on me by reading my "typical playstyle" try to remember that I haven't played for a while, I can't even remember myself how I used to play so I don't know how you all are.

Since this is about me again, here are my questions.
Your "connections"? The only people who have connections in this game are mafia, cults, masons, and those who talk with the dead. I doubt you're a cultist, and I severely doubt you're speaking with Tanks, Rex, or Discrimin8.
Your reasoning for not attacking me changed. Why? You went from being unsure about me to being sure that I'm mafia, while stating you're trying to gather your thoughts about me. You're not afraid of attacking me, but you want to attack Lander to learn about me. And you say I COULD side with any faction, but are again "quite sure" that I'm mafia.

If this is about me, make it about me. Before, I was voting for you to get you to talk. Now, I'm declaring my vote as a desire to see you dead for a filibuster attack with no open reasoning behind it.

Sighence · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 8:56 pm

'connections' = 'logical steps', kik, even if you may see them more as leaps than steps.

Kikori · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 10:04 pm

Then let's try this from a different angle.

Whatever leaps of logic you have, Henry, holding back information that's apparently so useful to bringing down the mafia is nothing short of scummy. If it's so wild we won't believe it, it's probably wrong. If it's too wild to make sense of but the pieces can be pieced together, there ARE villagers who can help you out. If it's all in perfect alignment and you're just holding back, that's the exact same brand of scumminess I call people out for every single time. If you claim to have the logic that pins two people as mafia, quit holding it back so people aside from yourself can make some damned use of it. :?:

Topsummoner · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 10:29 pm

There's the problem of him saying things that people could spin as being scummy. That's probably what he's trying to avoid.

Kikori · **Posted:** August 5th, 2010, 10:57 pm

I must have missed the part where people playing it safe and trying to avoid being suspected of anything was the ideal goal of a villager. >_>

Dr Henry · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 5:19 am

The problem with laying all my cards (LOLpun) on the table so early in the game is, that if through some hysterical chain of events it ends up that everything is a coincidence, I'd screw up the game for three people or more.

I'm fairly certain you are mafia Kik, however I'm not 100% and need to run through the alternate possibilities that there are. It isn't about you, it is about you AND Lander, and if you read what I said... I can't vote for both of you at once, so why should I also launch a full-scale attack on you both at once?

Oh and Monk is correct, 'connections' as in links between logical processes.
Lazy for not wanting to read through 17 pages of 'metagame'? Not really.

Lander you say that doing that would have put you in the spotlight, which as mafia is where you wouldn't want to be. Well, as a mafia wouldn't that be the perfect defence as to saying you are a villager instead? Besides, I'm fairly certain the common belief is that inactives are scum, and those who are active or in the spotlight are villagers. You know this, so using it as a ploy to be a mafia in the spotlight is an easy thing for you to do.

Tahu 1000 · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 5:55 am

Speaking of the metagame, this round has the most screwed-up metagame so far of any main game I can remember playing.

Kikori · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 9:59 am

Tahu 1000 wrote:

Speaking of the metagame, this round has the most screwed-up metagame so far of any main game I can remember playing.

Then do something about it.

Also, Henry.

Dr Henry wrote:

I'm fairly certain of you being mafia, Lander, and am quite sure that Kikori is also, however I need more time to collate my thoughts on Kikori to be sure, and a lot of that depends on the outcome of your death.

I hope you'll forgive me if thinking "I need Lander to die to be for sure what Kikori is" makes this about me.
Yes, you are lazy for not wanting to read through seventeen pages, specifically to find the answer to one question that would potentially change your view entirely on the current situation.
Inactives are 50/50. The village views inactives as threats to the game in later days when it's down to a couple active players unable to make lynches due to inactive idlers, mafia views that as a bonus.
If you think being under constant fire is a mafia-only trait, you've been gone longer than you think. It's a trait for players to keep the mafia guessing if one is going to get themselves lynched or not.

twinArmageddons · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 10:04 am

bluecoat

Sighence · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 10:24 am

Dr Henry wrote:

The problem with laying all my cards (LOLpun) on the table so early in the game is, that if through some hysterical chain of events it ends up that everything is a coincidence, I'd screw up the game for three people or more.

I'm fairly certain you are mafia Kik, however I'm not 100% and need to run through the alternate possibilities that there are. It isn't about you, it is about you AND Lander, and if you read what I said... I can't vote for both of you at once, so why should I also launch a full-scale attack on you both at once?

Oh and Monk is correct, 'connections' as in links between logical processes.
Lazy for not wanting to read through 17 pages of 'metagame'? Not really.

Lander you say that doing that would have put you in the spotlight, which as mafia is where you wouldn't want to be. Well, as a mafia wouldn't that be the perfect defence as to saying you are a villager instead? Besides, I'm fairly certain the common belief is that inactives are scum, and those who are active or in the spotlight are villagers. You know this, so using it as a ploy to be a mafia in the spotlight is an easy thing for you to do.

tl;dr: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Don't do this, Doc. It never works out well.

DC, mind giving an explanation? I think I know why, but everyone should.

twinArmageddons · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 10:37 am

Monk Basher wrote:

DC, mind giving an explanation? I think I know why, but everyone should.

Want to see how he reacts.

Steely Mallon · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 11:58 am

I've had my vote on him since the start of the day for legitimate reason and he has not seemed to care.

Herny: First of all, to sum up the last mafia game (don't get why lander or kik couldn't do it themselves), lander played well over half the game as the only mafia alive (3, 4 days?). Made it down the final three players. That said, he ran out of gas for being a mafioso. After the game said that if he's mafia again soon he won't be putting in that enormous effort again, or anything close. For him to be mafia this game, he would in fact have to be putting in that effort. That's where Kik is drawing his point from.

Secondly, I think you're taking this all at the wrong angle. Lander made no (public) decision to have Kik declare him a villager. Kik dragged him in inadvertantly. How, then, can lynching lander tell you anything about Kikori?

On the other hand, lynching Kikori first can tell you much about lander. If he flips mafia, then you can speculate why Kik would do this and probably come to the conclusion you have now. If he flips town, lander returns to an ordinary level of suspect. Regardless of how lander flips, though, I just don't see how it can be used to analyze Kikori.

Scar · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 1:29 pm

Topsummoner wrote:

Scar wrote:

f you remember, we had to wait awhile for the game to actually get going after we got our Role PMs. No offense meant here, but knowing how Riptide is I have no trouble believing he forgot about the game. Grant it he should have remembered to check back often.

If YOU remember, Riptide replaced Orangequest, immediately before the start of Day 1. He could not have possibly forgotten he was in the game.

FOS: Scar

Apparently I didn't remember correctly then. I still don't think Riptide is Mafia, Mentos clearly wanted him to post so he would get lynched faster. He could have very easily substituted anyone of us for Riptide in his claims.

bluecoat · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 1:35 pm

BZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrote:

I've had my vote on him since the start of the day for legitimate reason and he has not seemed to care.

My apologies. It's not that I haven't cared, it's that I haven't had much time to post the last two days.

Anyway, I have no reaction to DC. As for your initial vote for me, I voted DC on a whim in a hurry. It was pretty blatant that Mentos was full of crap; he was pretty much begging to be lynched. If it came down to voting a random villager and voting a probable jester, I voted a random villager and was too lazy to write a proper explanation. My apologies for that as well.

Spirographed · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 1:37 pm

Dr I've been lazy myself, but I've gone back and fixed what I've done. Die you. Die.

Sighence · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 1:40 pm

Still doesn't answer why he didn't post, Scar. Iunno about you, but my role PM came a whopping two minutes after the topic was opened. Rip knew full well what he was doing. But enough of that dead horse. Why have you been so adamant in defending him? Why hasn't he answered these allegations himself? Answer: Because you mafia are afraid he'll mess up, so you're doing it for him.

Scar, Top, and Rip are my mafia candidates.

I'll say that again so nobody misses this when they go back and analyze my posts when I die.

SCAR, TOPSUMMONER, AND RIPTIDE ARE MAFIA.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 2:04 pm

I responded to your accusations earlier. But it seems like you didn't notice that.

I am not mafia, you're mistaken or flat-out lying there.

I can see your point with Scar, but you should know by now what the deal with Riptide is. You just can't take anything from someone who is scummy in every single post they make regardless of role.

Sighence · **Posted:** August 6th, 2010, 2:18 pm

More like I forgot to address them. You've played on here a lot, not to mention EpicMafia as well. You know the terminology - and its entymology - as well as I do.

tl;dr: I don't believe you.

Mafia 15 - A Party Game - Day 8

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