The Draft - Game over. Team A wins!

Steely Mallon · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 8:02 pm

Warlock is typically a third-party role (Note: NOT cult), and I don't know whether or not it's possible for you to win with the town as well as on your own or only on your own. To be honest though, I don't think you'd be able to. People who can win as individuals tend only to be able to win this way.

Gotta say, what you said about keeping you alive is convincing, but I can't do that knowing you're not aligned with the town. Frank.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 9:31 pm

Frank 4.0.1 wrote:

Landerpurex wrote:

Actually, at this point, since frank has come out and we know his team is crippled as it is, I'd be willing to say there's no reason not to lynch him anyway. He's an opposing team (to whomever, most of us), there will be no mutual village win (you guys know exactly what I'm talking about) so we might as well take out some of the competition. :?:

You're obviously aware there is still a mafia presence lurking out there. So this logic just throws me for a loop. Yes I'm on an opposing faction to you, but you've got everything wrong in this idea...

Your argument reads something like this... "He's on Team B, so villager or cultist, we A and C group members win regardless of his death." The problem with that is that if you're going to try a team win, you'd want to keep me alive. Your team wins if you're able to remove the rest of the villager factions and mafia. If I'm on Team B and a villager, then your odds are significantly better for a team victory if you keep me around, provided your teams players stays strong. After all, what threat am I ultimately to your team? My team has been struck with three kills, we're on our last ropes. There's no way I'd be able to stalemate a vote or gain majority over your team, provided again that I'm only a villager.

So I'm tended to believe there is something Lander needs to elaborate on.

Quote:

Frank: You say you are a member of Team B. I can understand perfectly well why you'd be hesitant to vote for Animal, and it's a perfectly logical reaction as it is to ask people to take their time. However, at this point, you have only one team member left; quite frankly, I don't think it will be possible for you to win with your team. Also, chances are, the cult leader is a member of your team. What better way to guarantee victory than avoid conflict between team and faction? So, I believe that the cult leader is either you or your remaining teammate. If you turn over your teammate, you'll have a fair shot at living. I think you mentioned something about having a role; I would like to weigh that claim against the other Team B member. If not though, I'd see no reason not to lynch you.

The law of probability would suggest that my final partner would be clean. However, Monk Basher is a bit of a noob, so it's entirely possible to have drafted such a poisoned team. Regardless, if I gave you a name it would then become a choice between him or myself to be lynched. This has very little benefit to me and would hurt my overall chances of winning this game more then it would help. I'd simply be alive longer to see it all unfold. So no dice. My teammate might have recruited Animal, somebody else might have. I'm not going to throw a person under the bus to drag myself out if it means that I'll be heading straight into oncoming traffic anyways. I can handle being the lone member of Team B, but I'm not going to expose myself to it if comments like Lander's gains ground.

However, I'm not opposed to telling you about my own role. I've been designated the "Warlock." I have a victory condition in which if I can guess two mafia victims the night they happen, I win. Last night I chose Lander... The night before I didn't choose at all.

1. You're right, which is why I said

Landerpurex wrote:

However, we ought to think about focusing on the mafia first.

Thyker wrote:

Landerpurex wrote:

(you guys know exactly what I'm talking about)

Actually, no I don't. Care to clarify Landerpurex?

Ohu.

The mere fact that you're missing it or playing dumb sends up the most massive red flag here. I said that following my "there won't be a mutual village win" because of the fact that we each win with our faction, this is the common knowledge everyone seems to be dancing around. If you were part of a faction, you'd know that.

Now, the only thing that eludes me is whether the mafia are among our teams or are on their own.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 9:33 pm

Oh yeah I remember point number 2 now:

2. I don't know if you can remove a guess as a warlock, but yeah. You'd better hope you can, because I'm not scum.

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 9:34 pm

Actually, now that I think about it, if you're a warlock and win if you guess two mafiosos, that's game over for everyone else. (As I understand it. Kind of like a lyncher-lynchee, or a jester.)

Frank.

Steely Mallon · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 9:44 pm

Everyone has both a faction and a team. That means there are mafia members amongst your team. Everyone has two win conditions, one with their team and one with their faction.

I don't know how you've made it this far and not realized that. :-s

Tanksandguns · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 9:45 pm

I'm so lost...

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 9:55 pm

Steely Mallon wrote:

Everyone has both a faction and a team. That means there are mafia members amongst your team. Everyone has two win conditions, one with their team and one with their faction.

I don't know how you've made it this far and not realized that. :-s

Yep. Just went over the rules and the signup thread again. HUGE oversight on my part. Some things are still ambiguous as hell, though. There's a good reason for my confusion, I swear.

That considered, what Frank was saying about a mutual village win makes sense. However, he does claim to be a warlock and it doesn't fit, and even if it does, he wins by successfully guessing 2 mafia members. (Game over for us.)

Landerpurex · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 10:00 pm

It's also worth noting that we're given the group that the cultists belong to, but not the group the mafia belong to.

The hell? :?:

Paidea · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 10:09 pm

You were given Blackmage172's team association in his death post, I just updated the front page incorrectly.

~Paidea

Tanksandguns · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 10:28 pm

I think he has to guess the mafia targets, not the mafia members, Lander. I could be wrong though...

Steely Mallon · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 10:38 pm

Each night Frank PM's Paidea with a guess as to who the mafia will kill. If he's right twice, he wins.

mentos · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 11:25 pm

Steely, I'm pretty sure that warlocks work with lynches, not night kills.

Steely Mallon · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 11:29 pm

We now consider the people we lynch mafia victims?

Thyker · **Posted:** March 28th, 2010, 11:33 pm

Frank 4.0.1 wrote:

I've been designated the "Warlock." I have a victory condition in which if I can guess two mafia victims the night they happen, I win.

Nightkills only, apparently.

mentos · **Posted:** March 29th, 2010, 12:34 am

Hmm, paidea switched up the way that the warlock works... interesting.

bluecoat · **Posted:** March 29th, 2010, 3:09 am

mentos wrote:

Hmm, paidea switched up the way that the warlock works... interesting.

He's the host, and for the love of God he can do stuff like that. "This role claim needs host verification" is not a valid argument anymore, and all it does is cause problems for everyone. If you don't believe him, just vote for him.

Anyway, my vote stands. There was a 50/50 chance that Frank was either cult or just Team B, but that roleclaim is as good a reason as any to keep my vote. In regards to cults, teams make no difference to me.

Tweedy · **Posted:** March 29th, 2010, 4:51 am

Scar wrote:

Tweedy wrote:

Tahu 1000 wrote:

Frank, the way it's going, pulling for a mutual village win is harder than going for a team win at this point, especially with the detective down. Also, as you mentioned, all the villagers are hiding things, which makes scumtells much harder to differentiate (because all villagers are, in a way, part of at least one mafia-like entity).

He just flat out admitted to not wanting the village to win. Yet nobody even did a double take?

I think everyone may be a bit more sympathetic towards their own team this time around than anything. Besides, you pointed it out but didn't vote or pursue it either.

Yeah because traitorous village < suspected cultist.

Steely's argument was smooth, but rather too obvious. Still, at least we got a roleclaim. It may be bogus, but for now I'm inclined to believe Frank. The question is whether we'd be better off targetting Frank or trying to dig out the cult leader and any cultists.

From my perspective, the need to eliminate the cult ASAP outweighs the danger in leaving Frank alive. Top as good as roleclaimed in his post so there's a fair chance that Frank, thinking the same as the mafia, selected him. In which case I'd suggest that the mafia choose an unlikely target tonight (or even eliminate Frank, I'm not too attached to him).

For the cult -

Thyker, Pengu, Frank and myself didn't vote for TheAnimal yesterday. I was rather incapacitated for the day and couldn't get online, Frank we've already covered.

Scar, Mentos, Lander and bluey brought up the tail end of the train. It isn't a great measure because we had a fairly certain roleclaim and lynch target from Steely. But before that we had Black's initial vote on Animal. Between Black's vote and Steely's claim, the only one of the listed names to post was Scar, and he didn't address the issue of Black's vote. Not that much of a mark given that nobody else brought it up till Steely, but we don't have much to work with here. Still, I'm happier targetting somebody who didn't vote for Animal so I'm going with Thyker for now.

Frank 4.0.1 · **Posted:** March 29th, 2010, 9:29 am

Tweedy wrote:

... blah blah blah I'm a jerk... (or even eliminate Frank, I'm not too attached to him)

You won't be getting a Christmas card from me this year...

Frank 4.0.1 · **Posted:** March 29th, 2010, 9:37 am

Steely Mallon wrote:

Warlock is typically a third-party role (Note: NOT cult), and I don't know whether or not it's possible for you to win with the town as well as on your own or only on your own. To be honest though, I don't think you'd be able to. People who can win as individuals tend only to be able to win this way.

Perhaps this is true and I didn't understand what exactly is going on in this game and I've gave you priceless information that would certainly kill me...

But as the way I understand it is that I am on Team B, so I have the winning condition to win with my Team B members. However Paidea's post to gauge the interest of this game also state that:

Quote:

A team wins when all other players from the two rivals have died. However, a mafia faction still exists, and will win when they and the town have the same number of players alive, in addition to eliminating all cultists. Yes, a lone cult leader lurks in the shadows, and the cult will win when the majority of players alive are cultists. Indeed, even the town can bind together and aim for a victory.

Note the underlined sentence. From my understanding if we all as a collective village of A, B, and C players pool together and rid the game of both the mafia and cultists, we can still win this game as a traditional mafia win. Honestly I think it's best for everyone to either win as an individual or as a cohesive group. This faction grouping just doesn't seem like a likely way to win the game. It'll be close to impossible to keep your group members alive, and not having them betray you, long enough for the mafia to weed out the other group members and for you to timely remove the mafia from the game.

Steely Mallon · **Posted:** March 29th, 2010, 10:56 am

That is correct. However, your win conditions seems to be with Team B or with yourself, not with Team B or the village.

The Draft - Game over. Team A wins!

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