RVET #57: Global Mafia - Game over; Village wins

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 8:28 am

PenguinGuy wrote:

Christopher wrote:

Anyone else slightly confused about why the mafia chose to target Lander?

Yes.

For your very reasons, I investigated him. He came up villager, obviously.

The only thing I can think of is that the remaining Mafia are not as experienced as Kikori is, because I very much doubt he'd have taken the decision to kill off Lander. To me that backs up the FOS on phantomrose that Top and Henry have highlighted. Obviously it's tenuous at best but I think it's a legitimate line of inquiry.

Godders · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 8:40 am

I have a pretty strong FOS on Phantomrose, and if their isnt anything significant that happens today, she will be who i vote for.

Scar · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 10:26 am

I am here, and I am reading. This has been an awful week for me in real life so you'll have to forgive my lack of activity, and if not I don't care really.

I will be posting more in depth tomorrow, after I am done with classes for the week. However, i don't like the Phantomrose train, her defense of Kikori was weak but I would attribute that more to her being a misguided new player than anything.

Were she actually Mafia I believe she would have hoped on the train against him. It's easier for a new player to hide on a train, than to hide in the open. By defending kikori she was clearly drawing attention to herself, which is something I don't think a first-time Mafia member would do.

Godders · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 10:38 am

Scar wrote:

Were she actually Mafia I believe she would have hoped on the train against him. It's easier for a new player to hide on a train, than to hide in the open. By defending kikori she was clearly drawing attention to herself, which is something I don't think a first-time Mafia member would do.

Yeah i can understand what you are saying, my first game i was pretty quite until the end of Day One i got you lynched and then BAM everyone was on my tail for the rest of the game.

Whenever you go against the masses for whatever reason then you will be questioned, if you are Mafia the Mafia are likely to throw you under the bus, unless you are a strong player. And if you aren't Mafia, the Mafia will not stop making accusations in an attempt to get a day kill.

Jackstick · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 10:41 am

Phantomrose because sure why not.

Tanksandguns · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 11:43 am

Let's slow this Phantomrose train down, guys. Give her a chance to defend herself.

Phantomrose · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 12:24 pm

I will have to admit that I genuinely thought that Kikori was innocent. I also admit that I was wrong in my defense of Kikori. It is a simple matter of me not analyzing his posts more closely, and looking for flaws (which I know I should be doing now.)

Topsummoner · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 1:57 pm

Scar wrote:

Were she actually Mafia I believe she would have hoped on the train against him. It's easier for a new player to hide on a train, than to hide in the open. By defending kikori she was clearly drawing attention to herself, which is something I don't think a first-time Mafia member would do.

The thing is, a first-time mafia player wouldn't necessarily KNOW what they were doing was wrong. A first-time mafia player could be more inclined to think "Kikori is on my team and is close to being lynched, I should try to prevent that!", especially if they have missed either the detective's post OR don't know exactly what a detective is. Those two options being, what I think is most likely happened to Phantomrose.

@ Phantomrose

When you made the following post:

Phantomrose wrote:

I think Kikori is innocent in all of this. After all Lander, he did try to help you and make you innocent. I don't think Kikori posted anything particularly suspicious.

viewtopic.php?p=10314237&f=118#p10314237

Had you read and/or understood this post?

PenguinGuy wrote:

Detective here. Night One sanity check. Night Two, Kikori Kid is Mafia.

viewtopic.php?p=10314216&f=118#p10314216

Riptide · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 2:14 pm

Phantomrose wrote:

I will have to admit that I genuinely thought that Kikori was innocent. I also admit that I was wrong in my defense of Kikori. It is a simple matter of me not analyzing his posts more closely, and looking for flaws (which I know I should be doing now.)

Mafia usually tend to distance themselves from their partners, except if you're new. If I recall, I tried a half assed defense for one of my fellow mafia members a while back.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 2:16 pm

OKAY, now onto the subject of Market.

Market's mostly been posting fluff all game, but that's par for the course with him. The things that tipped me off are:

1. Shortly after I voted for thedefencema to pressure him as an inactive player, Market essentially parroted me but twisted the intentions from pressure to lynching.

Market Man6 wrote:

thedefencema where have you been? You are being completely useless, and if there is no reason for it... Then I see no reason to keep you around.

Inactive player, easy lynch?

2. Market's vote for Kikori is too 'justified'. He covers it up with a lot of fluff to make it seem like he has reasons better than bussing to bandwagon on Kikori.

Market Man6 wrote:

kikori
im voting for him cause i do not believe his defense.
and the one little thing that was extra for me... was how he knew he was doomed and the last thing he could comment on was the spelling of his name.

3. Kikori was pushing on Market all of Day 2, while also constantly mentioning how he wasn't suspicious of Tru/Animal, and yet in his fakeclaim of Detective on Day 3, he omitted any mention of Market, instead claiming he investigated Animal. I interpreted this as avoiding calling attention to Market after his death, even in a WIFOM. Frank called him out here, conveniently gathering all of Kikori's mentions of Market into one post.

Frank 4.0.1 wrote:

Kikori, Mafia Darling wrote:

I'm the real detective, bros. I glued to Lander because of one reason: Night One was spent investigating him.

Kikori, Mafia Darling wrote:

My investigation night two went to **Animal(Tru Ninja).**

Kikori, Mafia Darling wrote:

**Market,** on the other hand, pointed out what was already under discussion and left it at that. You haven't seen **Market** as the least bit suspicious, which does surprise but doesn't unsettle me--not everyone will see things the exact same way. That you single out the people who do find him any bit suspicious, however, is confusing. Why do you think he's innocent when he takes no stance and simply posts some of the most hollow words on the topic?

Kikori, Mafia Darling wrote:

I don't see nights without Mafia kills as 'worse' than killing an inactive Godfather we know is the Godfather and instead getting a new, active Godfather who's probably much better hidden among us. Both **Market** and Tru are priority targets right now, it's just a case of which direction to take. **If nothing else, I'd like to at least get pressure on Market for his behavior. Leaving it untouched for the whole day doesn't sit well with me.**

Kikori, Mafia Darling wrote:

**Market's got suspicious behavior, while Tru has suspicious circumstance.** Is there really nothing wrong with this picture?

Kikori, Mafia Darling wrote:

**Market's actually done stuff that earns suspicion as Mafia, whereas Tru (if allowed to stay inactive) at the worst can make a plea of villager and potentially earn us another night without a kill. Tru fits the bill of inactive Godfather, but as far as I'm concerned, that would be a plus to the Village I'd like to take advantage of while it lasts. That and he hasn't had a chance to speak yet--I'd really feel like an ass if he didn't read his PM because of such things as internet troubles and family issues.**
Market Man6. You're first.

Market Man6

Dr Henry · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 2:41 pm

Jackstick wrote:

Phantomrose because sure why not.

One of these days you may actually play properly and put some effort in :facepalm:

Jackstick · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 3:36 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

Jackstick wrote:

Phantomrose because sure why not.

One of these days you may actually play properly and put some effort in :facepalm:

I seriously doubt that.

Dr Henry

Frank 4.0.1 · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 3:59 pm

Dr Henry wrote:

Jackstick wrote:

Phantomrose because sure why not.

One of these days you may actually play properly and put some effort in :facepalm:

[youtube]_n5E7feJHw0[/youtube]

Phantomrose · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 7:28 pm

@ Topsummoner to best honest, I skimmed over that post that Penguin made, which again was another fault of mine.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 10:04 pm

Alright. Not buying that, Rose. The entire day up to that point was discussion of Penguin's investigation of Kikori. To have somehow missed all of that is inexcusable.

Phantomrose

Market Man6 · **Posted:** October 11th, 2012, 10:21 pm

top, im really not sure about you this game. you are definitely not behaving in your usual fashion. (but you arnt really acting scummy.) there is... just something... different about you.
for example, as i began to read your reply, i thought you were going to be bringing up concerns. making note of things that you are "suspicious of". and then have people comment on them.
i was thinking that because you started by only being "suspicious of Market" with more details to follow.... then when you got onto the topic of me, you kinda drifted into it. it felt like you began the subject lackadaisically.
just the way you said "OKAY, now onto the subject of market" it sounded like: OKAAAAY.... now, onto the the subject of market...

im used to the top that is ALWAYS voting for inactive people. always on peoples cases. im used to the top that when he makes an accusation, he states it. loud and clear.
im not used to any of this: tacking a vote on at the end of a reply. ....almost hiding it after a long quote.

1 - "Shortly after I voted for thedefencema to pressure him as an inactive player, Market essentially parroted me but twisted the intentions from pressure to lynching."
shortly after you voted for thedefencema to pressure him as an inactive player, i thought and hoped you were getting around to pressuring all the inactives; like you usually do. you pounce on one, then jump to the next. and with me on the first, i was adding more pressure onto the biggest inactive, and keeping it there for when you moved on.
also, if the train ended up taking off and lynching him, it wouldnt have bothered me greatly.
yes, i want to keep villagers alive and, i gave him the chance to explain if there was a reason for his inactivity. but its impossible to get a read on someone who hasnt even posted. for that reason, he could very easily be a hiding mafia.
"inactive player, easy lynch?"
inactive player, far more acceptable lynch. because -the other inactives see this, and start to talk more. -we learn more from what they say. -we learn from who was on that train. -we learn from what position they were on the train.

2 - "Market's vote for Kikori is too 'justified'. He covers it up with a lot of fluff to make it seem like he has reasons better than bussing to bandwagon on Kikori."
can you explain to me what you mean by fluff? cause i dont think fluff =/= reasons. after kikori hounded me to give more why's, i added the two whys for him earning my vote. i didnt vote cause i believed penguins claim. i voted because kikori couldnt defend himself well.
also, i have never witnessed one mafia hammer another mafia. if a mafia boards another mafias train, they are in the middle somewhere.

3 - "Kikori was pushing on Market all of Day 2, while also constantly mentioning how he wasn't suspicious of Tru/Animal, and yet in his fakeclaim of Detective on Day 3, he omitted any mention of Market, instead claiming he investigated Animal. I interpreted this as avoiding calling attention to Market after his death, even in a WIFOM."
im really at a loss here. im very unsure how to defend myself against someone elses actions. i hold no reason for his actions.
---removing this part before submitting. just to be sure im not breaking the rules. am i allowed to reference other mafia games?---

finally, on an unrelated note, im still waiting for a reply from animal.

Frank 4.0.1 · **Posted:** October 12th, 2012, 2:39 am

Commentary at the Village Square about Night One wrote:

"One!" A Vandal Root yelled.
"Two," Aragorn Ix said.
"Eight," Christopher added. Tanksandguns smacked him upside the back of the head.

"Whatever, we're all here," Lander said. "So let's do this...again."

[youtube]4u2ZsoYWwJA[/youtube]

Language warning.

Phantomrose · **Posted:** October 12th, 2012, 7:56 am

Well guys, looks like I have no other choice but to tell everyone that I am the doctor. I was just trying to keep it low key, so the Mafia did not know who I was, but I guess the cat is out of the bag now.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** October 12th, 2012, 8:10 am

Market Man6 wrote:

i was thinking that because you started by only being "suspicious of Market" with more details to follow.... then when you got onto the topic of me, you kinda drifted into it. it felt like you began the subject lackadaisically.
just the way you said "OKAY, now onto the subject of market" it sounded like: OKAAAAY.... now, onto the the subject of market...

Nope, it was just because I had made another post shortly before that without fulfilling my promise to comment on you.

Quote:

im used to the top that is ALWAYS voting for inactive people. always on peoples cases. im used to the top that when he makes an accusation, he states it. loud and clear.
im not used to any of this: tacking a vote on at the end of a reply. ....almost hiding it after a long quote.

There are several inactives in this game, and pressuring them isn't seeming to work, as they still refuse to show their faces. Wait until the endgame and I'll probably be doing just that.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to prove here anyways. Does it really matter where my vote was in my post?

Quote:

1 - "Shortly after I voted for thedefencema to pressure him as an inactive player, Market essentially parroted me but twisted the intentions from pressure to lynching."
shortly after you voted for thedefencema to pressure him as an inactive player, i thought and hoped you were getting around to pressuring all the inactives; like you usually do. you pounce on one, then jump to the next. and with me on the first, i was adding more pressure onto the biggest inactive, and keeping it there for when you moved on.
also, if the train ended up taking off and lynching him, it wouldnt have bothered me greatly.
yes, i want to keep villagers alive and, i gave him the chance to explain if there was a reason for his inactivity. but its impossible to get a read on someone who hasnt even posted. for that reason, he could very easily be a hiding mafia.
"inactive player, easy lynch?"
inactive player, far more acceptable lynch. because -the other inactives see this, and start to talk more. -we learn more from what they say. -we learn from who was on that train. -we learn from what position they were on the train.

The thing that set me off about that vote was really the wording you chose. "Then I see no reason to keep you around" is a lot more lynch-y than pressure-y. It sounded like you weren't interested in the possibility that thedefencema would come back and talk.

Quote:

2 - "Market's vote for Kikori is too 'justified'. He covers it up with a lot of fluff to make it seem like he has reasons better than bussing to bandwagon on Kikori."
can you explain to me what you mean by fluff? cause i dont think fluff =/= reasons. after kikori hounded me to give more why's, i added the two whys for him earning my vote. i didnt vote cause i believed penguins claim. i voted because kikori couldnt defend himself well.
also, i have never witnessed one mafia hammer another mafia. if a mafia boards another mafias train, they are in the middle somewhere.

Fluff is basically saying a lot without saying anything. It's things like stating the obvious, making irrelevant observations, or justifying a vote for someone counterclaiming detective on the 3rd day of a 21-player game.

As for the mafia hammer thing.... I think that falls under the 'No True Scotsman Fallacy'. In fact, that observation in itself is a bit fluffy.

Quote:

3 - "Kikori was pushing on Market all of Day 2, while also constantly mentioning how he wasn't suspicious of Tru/Animal, and yet in his fakeclaim of Detective on Day 3, he omitted any mention of Market, instead claiming he investigated Animal. I interpreted this as avoiding calling attention to Market after his death, even in a WIFOM."
im really at a loss here. im very unsure how to defend myself against someone elses actions. i hold no reason for his actions.

I wasn't really expecting you to defend yourself from that, that's just making connections from the one guy we know for sure is Mafia.

Quote:

---removing this part before submitting. just to be sure im not breaking the rules. am i allowed to reference other mafia games?---

That's called metagaming and we do it all the time.

------------------------------

Phantomrose wrote:

Well guys, looks like I have no other choice but to tell everyone that I am the doctor. I was just trying to keep it low key, so the Mafia did not know who I was, but I guess the cat is out of the bag now.

El crapo. Unvote

Dr Henry · **Posted:** October 12th, 2012, 8:40 am

Not sure whether to believe Phantom or not...

For now, Unvote

If you are the Doctor, who have you been protecting?

RVET #57: Global Mafia - Game over; Village wins

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