Libya

Zizi · Since Jan 17, 2008

Since then, the coastal city of Sabratha towards the Tunisia border, and the mountain town of Gharyan has fallen to Gaddafi, and right now Gaddafi's force is attacking port town of Marsa El Brega with air support. Brega has one of the biggest oil refinery in Libya, and Gaddafi's force have already seized parts of this town.

While the UN (especially the Russians, French and the Chinese) is wavering on the idea of No Fly Zone, the dictator is shipping in mercenaries and weapons by air, and use fighter jets to support several counterattack on democratic revolutionaries.

Benerfedevil · **Posted:** March 2nd, 2011, 10:14 am

It seems as if Gaddafi is in it now. Tripoli surrounded and all.

Zizi · Since Jan 17, 2008

Benerfedevil wrote:

It seems as if Gaddafi is in it now. Tripoli surrounded and all.

That map is somewhat deceptive, as the towns around Tripoli are small and majority of the rebellion lies to the East around the 2nd largest city of Benghazi. The problem for the forces from Benghazi is that if they want to march towards Tripoli, they needs to travel along the coastal road that passes through Gaddafi stronghold of Surt (his home town). Today Gaddafi's force from Surt have attacked towards Ajdabiya and Marsa El Brega. So the rebellion in the west are been cutoff from rest of the country, and Gaddafi's forces from Tripoli are expanding and recovering areas around the capital. Simply put, the momentum is shifting towards Gaddafi today.

Znath · **Posted:** March 2nd, 2011, 9:26 pm

They're "talking" about a no-fly zone to try and prevent the air attacks on protesters. Apparently part of that though is bombing anti-air targets. It's basically going to war but only using aircraft and no land troops.

It's not a good situation and it's getting far worse from the complete apathy by the rest of the world.

Whether anyone actually does anything, eventually it's obvious his regime will collapse. The only question really is how much will he do before that point. The guy's already bombed his own people.

Snake1235 · **Posted:** March 2nd, 2011, 9:50 pm

Znath wrote:

It's not a good situation and it's getting far worse from the complete apathy by the rest of the world.

Just doing what everyone told us to.

Znath · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2011, 12:54 am

Well war-crimes and crimes against humanity only garner intervention when it's in Europe.

Snake1235 · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2011, 1:00 am

Znath wrote:

Well war-crimes and crimes against humanity only garner intervention when it's in Europe.

Oh hey, Iraq and Afghanistan. What's up? You had perfect societies that just had evil rulers. No emphasis on war-crimes in those countries.

Zizi · Since Jan 17, 2008

More towns around the capital have been recaptured by Gaddafi overnight.

One piece of good news is that Gaddafi's force from Surt fail to take the strategic oil town of Brega.

Benerfedevil · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2011, 9:58 am

I think Benghazi is a key city for both sides. It is of top importance.

The ports and docks were key to both sides in WW2 as well.

Znath · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2011, 11:55 am

Quote:

Oh hey, Iraq and Afghanistan. What's up? You had perfect societies that just had evil rulers. No emphasis on war-crimes in those countries.

Which are for the bulk majority US things. Many countries have already pulled support out.
But when things flared up in East Europe in the 90's
it was suddenly "We need to stop this now"
Where UN support was near instant.

I don't think I would also consider either Afghanistan, the society dominated by a totalitarian government in a nation of people for the vast majority addicted to opiates a "perfect" society. Though I guess if getting high to avoid the feeling of starvation and stark poverty is your thing.. But forget about the schools being built or people voting for the first time.. Then Saddam does still have the world record for most civilian deaths in a gas attack, but he was a good guy wasn't he?

It's the same situation almost. Military attacks on civilians by a dictator who will latch on until the bitter end.
The biggest fear right now is that, like Saddam did, Gadaffi might have reserves of toxic gas like mustard gas
and then turn that on the people. At the moment Libya claims it is all gone, but he isn't exactly the most trustworthy of people.

The last word I've heard on a no-fly-zone is that it would take "more jets than one carrier" and a "major engagement"
in order to pull something like that off in the area to at the very least, prevent the jet bombings and
helicopter attacks on the people. And where I believe the USS Enterprise is in the area, it alone could not really support a real no-fly-zone.

Zizi · Since Jan 17, 2008

Znath wrote:

It's the same situation almost. Military attacks on civilians by a dictator who will latch on until the bitter end.
The biggest fear right now is that, like Saddam did, Gadaffi might have reserves of toxic gas like mustard gas
and then turn that on the people. At the moment Libya claims it is all gone, but he isn't exactly the most trustworthy of people

You give Gaddafi too much credit, as of last month, Libya only destroyed half of their 25 ton mustard gas, Gaddafi still currently have 10 tons of the stuff, and planes give him the ability to deploy such weapon in nearly anywhere inside Libya.

Znath wrote:

The last word I've heard on a no-fly-zone is that it would take "more jets than one carrier" and a "major engagement" in order to pull something like that off in the area to at the very least, prevent the jet bombings and
helicopter attacks on the people. And where I believe the USS Enterprise is in the area, it alone could not really support a real no-fly-zone.

Maybe a CAP mission would be more effective, such mission can be managed by a single carrier, and concentrate along the Libyan coast would be highly effective. Deny air traffic from Tripoli and Surt would pretty much kill Gaddafi's air force, and stop more mercenary from arriving. We don't need a countrywide No Fly Zone to break Gaddafi's air power.

Znath · **Posted:** March 3rd, 2011, 4:17 pm

He's also been playing the
"If the west gets involved, thousands will die and it's your fault" card a lot

It wouldn't surprise me if he called in mustard gas attacks on rebel held towns.

Zizi · Since Jan 17, 2008

A Week since and while the world is still debating on whether or not No Fly Zone should be set up, Gaddafi is winning the war. In the West only Zuwarah and Misurata is still in Rebel control, while in the east Gaddafi's force have destroyed a large rebel force in Ras Lanuf and is at the gate of Ajdabiya, give another week or so of inaction by the world, Gaddafi might just able to crush this rebellion all by himself.

Znath · **Posted:** March 14th, 2011, 8:44 pm

Obama will sit on his hands for months until it's too late and the UN might pass
non-binding resolutions to condemn Gadaffi over and over and
weakly request he stand trial for crimes against humanity,
and while we wait, thousands will die.

WeirdBoy · **Posted:** March 14th, 2011, 11:09 pm

I really hate that the US is the one everyone is looking for to do anything in this kind of situation while the rest of the world just watches

Benerfedevil · **Posted:** March 15th, 2011, 4:34 am

I could see Russia doing something about it. But not anymore since the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore and were a close ally to Gaddafi.

But thats about it..

Archbishop of Banana · **Posted:** March 15th, 2011, 9:01 am

i really dont look forward to this

Znath · **Posted:** March 15th, 2011, 7:57 pm

Quote:

I really hate that the US is the one everyone is looking for to do anything in this kind of situation while the rest of the world just watches

Well yes, that way they can blame the US either way.
-if the US intervenes and it gets nasty "HOW DARE YOU 'national sovereignty!!1'
-if the US doesn't intervene and it goes bad "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING"

Never mind the fact that EVERY nation in Europe is within air striking distance.
And the US is thousands of miles away.

Animal · **Posted:** March 15th, 2011, 8:55 pm

WeirdBoy wrote:

I really hate that the US is the one everyone is looking for to do anything in this kind of situation while the rest of the world just watches

Post of the thread.

Burks · **Posted:** March 15th, 2011, 9:41 pm

Znath wrote:

Quote:

I really hate that the US is the one everyone is looking for to do anything in this kind of situation while the rest of the world just watches

Well yes, that way they can blame the US either way.
-if the US intervenes and it gets nasty "HOW DARE YOU 'national sovereignty!!1'
-if the US doesn't intervene and it goes bad "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING"

Never mind the fact that EVERY nation in Europe is within air striking distance.
And the US is thousands of miles away.

Actually......that makes perfect sense. Problem is the rest of the world is too ignorant to see that.

The US is damned if we do, damned if we don't. So we might as well do whatever is in OUR best interest, and screw the rest of the world. They hate us either way, might as well benefit from it.

Libya

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