I agree with that 100%.

Also, we all have different views. And I thank Zizi for showing some common respect in seeing this simple fact. I think this forum says something about debating for MATURE people. I never attacked anyone, and when I check this thread a few days from my previous post I'm called a Nazi... well ok? I honestly don't see what you wish to accomplish by calling me that, but whatever.

Thank you to all the mature people who can take up a controversial topic and not start an ignorant war.

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Way too true.
Living in Alabama, many people still have their W sticker on their cars, and I just sit there at my wheel like "Ohmigawsh you guys, how are you SO BLIND?"
I pretty much hate that person, and everything from the calendars to the background on my computer and kitchen towels in my house are anti-bush.

And he had the NERVE to call 9-11 National Prayer Day.
What an IDIOT.
/rant

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hai
ORLYnao

Not quite. Bush doesn't care about poor people. Or, at least, people who aren't somehow involved in big business.

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I think this can be answered with him vetoing the bill that gave money to poor kids and would raise taxes on smoking. Yay, medical attention for poor kids! Yay, maybe less people smoking!

What? He vetoed it, why?
"Poor kids first."
What? His logic makes no sense.

I don't like the man. I don't hate him so much for his decisions in Iraq. The war probably could have been handled better, but we haven't had many presidents have to deal with something of that caliber. Maybe Gore or Kerry would be better, but who could tell?

I'm going to agree with the masses and say I dislike Bush, but I suppose I can understand some people's views on him. If the war never occurred, maybe he would have been considered a good president, but he isn't because of the current circumstances.

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Ag23.

Probably. He's done pretty good things for our economy, overall.

*baits*

Point taken.

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Ag23.

Bush is not an idiot, he has done a great many things he wanted to do, like helping corperations, turning himself into King George II, while effectivly diverting attention away from himself and onto a unneeded war.

I haven't said anything . . . yet. ;D

*Bites*

Yeah, Bush has made some mistakes as far as the economy goes. The biggest would be increasing spending while decreasing taxes.

He took on a ballanced budget. He has since then driven up the deficit and national debt hugely.

He managed to pass a range of rather interesting tax cuts, that many economists suggest might well have strongly encouraged the economy and stimulated growth. That would have been a very, very good thing. However, he then increased government spending in a wide range of areas without adding any extra taxes. That essentially means he was spending money he didn't have.

Similarly, his economic plans relied hugely on increased spending and borrowing. It relied on huge amounts of turnover and people living beyond their means through loans and mortgages that they didn't really need and couldn't really afford. A quick look at the recent financial news shows how that has turned out. I'm not blaming the recent crisis on Bush (that was a huge sector of the financial market ignoring the elephant in the room), but he sure didn't take steps to avoid it, and his policies encouraged the behaviour that caused it.

I am sorry here in the US we have a moron in the white house that will veto most every bill that is put in front of him but we have a chance in 08 to mabe get someone better and that can do the job as prez.

Ron Paul 08

Recipe to save the country

1 tbsp freedom of speech
a pinch of habeas corpus
2 tsp of freedom from gvmt spying
1 cup of federal fiscal responsibility
a dash of secure borders
4 tbsp of an end to the income tax
2 tbsp of returning our kids from Iraq now
1 tsp of an unregulated Internet
2 cups of Bill of Rights
1 cup of Constitution
etc.

Preheat country by voting for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries. Combine ingredients in a large bowl and mix throughly. Add a dash of hope and prayer, to taste. Finally, bake by voting for and electing Dr. Paul in the General election in November 2008.

Serves 300 Million.

I call dibs. No one can debate with him on this point until I've had my turn. For now, though, sleep.

People grind Bush on this, but did know that Lincoln also suspended habeas corpus? Lincoln also believed that the president should have more power during wars and that people should have less freedoms in exchange for safety. Would dare say that Lincoln is a bad president for doing those things?

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Thanks Goten for the siggy.
Thanks Viruz for the avvy.

So you think Bush will be like Lincoln and be vindicated by history?

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Rule #2: Do not post.

And what will we do when the entire Middle East is drawn into greater chaos then it is already? We aren't leaving for at least another 10 years, if ever. Pulling completely out now will do nothing but kill people and cause millions, if not billions, in damages, both US/Iraqi military and civilian. And I am against the Iraq War, also. I don't think it was a good idea, and it was known that there was no WMDs in Iraq. But I also have the mindset of a military strategist, and just upping and leaving won't do anything but doom more people to death. I don't believe it's winnable, but no future war will be until the military is completely restructured around fighting a guerrilla war and most of the command levels are removed.

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Yes. At the very least it is a tarnish upon his presidency.

He went against the constitution. He violated peoples rights.

Had he gone through proper channels, created a way to detain threats within the structure of the law, he would have been fine. Ignoring those channels, ignoring the law, is inexcusible.

An article on the subjectNow, that site and group are really loonietarian nutters, but on that one point they are accurate and their words ring true.

Let us say that all of their other charges against Lincon are nonsense, and he was really a fantastic guy. Every other decision he made was perfectly valid and good. That still doesn't stop it from being a deep black spot on his record.

With regards to Bush, it isn't his only black spot. But it is a big one.

As for Ron Paul, he scares me as well, but in other ways. He panders far, far too much to the racist, dominationist right wing. He did used to publish a racist survivalist newsletter in his name. I don't mind libertarians, but libertarians who hold those view for flatly parnoid and selfish reasons are a problem in my book.My main question would be what can the USA afford with regards to staying in Iraq?

Look at the current cost of the war, even ignoring the human cost in casualties and the strain on the military. The next president, regardless of party, is going to have be fiscally far more sophisticated than Bush has been. The debt can't grow indefinitely, and there are desperate funding problems in many areas that have gone unnoticed.

Cutting the spending hole of the Iraq war might be the only way to ballance the budget short of tax increases far beyond the cuts that Bush made. I'm just wondering what actually having to pay for the war will do for support for that war within the USA. Who would be willing to actually pay the $1,500+ per person (in the USA) that has been spent already, on Iraq, out of the US budget? The expected cost is likely to be several times that, and someone has to pay it. That will be taken back in taxes in the future. The longer it is left, the more interest has to be paid on it. The longer we procrastinate, the most it hits the future generations.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... 1220071203

Bush cannot be stupid enough to go through this again.

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Round 2 lets lie about Iran go to war and just do this all over again right BUSH need to just bring the troops home and leave people alone DOES HE NEVER LEARN NO.............

Ron Paul was found the winner (and that is an understatement) in recent Zogby poll that included Democrats, Republicans and Independents nationwide.
Zogby Director of Communications and polling analyst Fritz Wenzel Says Ron Paul the Strongest Contender to Beat Hillary.

Why haven't you heard of Ron Paul?
Because Ron Paul stands for Liberty!!
And the media stands for control.
But this is a new day!!
We have Youtube!!
Go watch some of his videos
Ron Paul I think is the only candidate who is not a member of the CFR.
Thereby he is the only candidate who will stop the North American Union
You want to know why things are bad in this country?
Because power hungry bankers run this country.
The "Federal" Reserve is a private business that Violates the US Constitution.
Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate that will take the necessary steps to rectify this.
Ron Paul is also the only candidate that will STOP THIS WAR AND FUTURE WARS.
Ron Paul broke the all time record for donations in one day, raising 4.2 Mil.
His following is HUGE!!
(Even if you don't hear that on the news.)
RON PAUL IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE WHO CAN PREVENT US FROM FUTURE WARS!!!!
(Obama is no better than Hillery BTW)
And yes Ron Paul is running as a Republican (and i know your sick of Bush, so maybe you think that voting Democrat is going to change things. BUT ITS NOT!
ITS TIME TO STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS.
ITS TIME TO STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS.
ITS TIME TO START BEING GOOD AMERICANS.
GOOD HUMAN BEINGS.



Here is what you should do:
1. Research Ron Paul
2. REGISTER TO VOTE
3. Join a local Meet Up group and get active!!
4. Donate if you can.

America is not divided because of George Bush, the Government, Political views or any other thing you want to put the blame on. America is divided because you all think you're right and you're too stubborn to admit it

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Both Britain and France also think that a nuclear Iran is not the best interest of the region and the world. So USA is not alone on this issue.

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Three times Wiz Quiz Winner
Since Jan 17, 2008


The Kingdom of God is within you, not in buildings of wood and stone. - Gospel of Thomas

Speaking of that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whptaVhCtWc



Uhh, which nuclear Iran are you referring to? The one I know about apparently doesn't want to develop nuclear weapons.

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