10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

Nate · **Posted:** September 29th, 2010, 11:45 am

Wolff wrote:

Leanan Sidhe wrote:

I'd like to know why (if sin is the cause of everyone's pain and suffering) that I'm perfectly healthy even despite terrible eating habits, lack of exercise, and constantly claim that God is a jerk and that I'd rather go to hell than heaven.

Can you really claim that God doesn't help people because it was sin that brought them to where they are when there are people so tainted by sin it practically defines them yet have nothing wrong with them?

Its not necessarily your own sin. Thats like in the midevil ages if everyone got sick and you didn't you were considered a witch. Bad things are a circumstance of someone's sin. (And when i say bad things, i don't mean like your grandpa has a heart attack, god uses those circumstances to work through people's hardship.)Not necessarily your own. It's like with wars, one country wants another country's resources or decides to attack another country for x reason. Soldier A dies in that war, when Soldier A did nothing to provoke that certain country. Its a circumstance. Idk if that was really a good example or not but i hope i made a clear enough point. And the way you're looking at God is if he has a tally in heaven, and everytime you do something wrong he makes a check and everytime you do something right he makes a check. And for all the good checks you have x number of good things that happen and for all the bad checks you have x number of bad things. Gods job isn't to run around the world protecting everyone from bumps and bruises, in the bible he promises to be with you always, he's not promising an easy ride but he is promising an end. And that end is in heaven. (if you accept him as your savior)

So God works by making innocent people suffer while siners carry on and possibly benefit from this sin? Sounds like what the church told people in the middle ages to make them accept their crappy life :?:

Wolff wrote:

Complain about my punctuation, and go against people's age. Is that the best you have. Everything else makes sense, and yes people DID live to be older like 900 years+ back then, idc if you believe me or not

Although I completely respect your belief in the bible, you can't really present it as fact. Else, I could quote the Book of the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster and it would hold just as much weight in this discussion.

Wolff · **Posted:** September 30th, 2010, 7:21 am

Nate wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Leanan Sidhe wrote:

I'd like to know why (if sin is the cause of everyone's pain and suffering) that I'm perfectly healthy even despite terrible eating habits, lack of exercise, and constantly claim that God is a jerk and that I'd rather go to hell than heaven.

Can you really claim that God doesn't help people because it was sin that brought them to where they are when there are people so tainted by sin it practically defines them yet have nothing wrong with them?

Its not necessarily your own sin. Thats like in the midevil ages if everyone got sick and you didn't you were considered a witch. Bad things are a circumstance of someone's sin. (And when i say bad things, i don't mean like your grandpa has a heart attack, god uses those circumstances to work through people's hardship.)Not necessarily your own. It's like with wars, one country wants another country's resources or decides to attack another country for x reason. Soldier A dies in that war, when Soldier A did nothing to provoke that certain country. Its a circumstance. Idk if that was really a good example or not but i hope i made a clear enough point. And the way you're looking at God is if he has a tally in heaven, and everytime you do something wrong he makes a check and everytime you do something right he makes a check. And for all the good checks you have x number of good things that happen and for all the bad checks you have x number of bad things. Gods job isn't to run around the world protecting everyone from bumps and bruises, in the bible he promises to be with you always, he's not promising an easy ride but he is promising an end. And that end is in heaven. (if you accept him as your savior)

So God works by making innocent people suffer while siners carry on and possibly benefit from this sin? Sounds like what the church told people in the middle ages to make them accept their crappy life :?:

No, now we're getting into temptation which is a whole new thing and doesn't pertain to this discussion, plus you have to believe there is a god to believe there is a devil to believe he tempts people. I believe as it is written that bad things that happen to believers, are from the devil. Not like in "water boy", where everything is the devil. But people who are weak with their faith might lose faith if something bad happens. Alot of people who claim to believe in god, start blaming him when things go wrong with their life. (ie. grandpa dies; "why'd you let this happen god?!?!?!") The devil's job is to try and get as many people to not believe as he can. Why would he even try to mess with the people who already don't believe, theres no point. He already knows non believers are going to hell, hes going to focus his energies on changing the ones he thinks are going to heaven. Now im not trying to be that condemning, 1 up, steriotype christian, but im telling you the truth of the matter. The devil goes after the ones who are saved, he doesn't worry about the ones who already aren't.

Wolff wrote:

Complain about my punctuation, and go against people's age. Is that the best you have. Everything else makes sense, and yes people DID live to be older like 900 years+ back then, idc if you believe me or not

Although I completely respect your belief in the bible, you can't really present it as fact. Else, I could quote the Book of the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster and it would hold just as much weight in this discussion.

While this is quite true, i honestly don't know how to prove that people lived 900 years + in age, i believe without a doubt it's true. Its something i cant explain, but i know how god has worked in my life, i know what he's done for me. I can't explain how he's taken me out of some really reallyy hard circumstances, but i know he did. As i can't explain how he managed to get me out of that hell i was in. I can't explain how people lived 900 years. But i believe its true cuz he says it. Sure i'm going to get spammed for saying "bible says it, so it must be true- what a dumb ass close minded christian" but idc. I can't explain everything, there is however facts that lead to the point that the world is only thousands of years old, not billions. Which sure doen't prove my point, but it does help with proving what the bible says is true.

sorry i replied in the quote, but i highlighted it so i think you should see it.

Pupsin · **Posted:** September 30th, 2010, 9:40 pm

Wolff, it is biologically and physically impossible for people to live "900+ years". And even if this COULD happen, shouldn't have there been written accounts of these phenomenons and why then did these super-humans stop getting produced? Also, I suggest you read this.

Wolff · **Posted:** October 1st, 2010, 6:36 am

your census chart isn't the same timeline as when the bible says people lived that long.

look here for proof http://www.creationworldview.org/articl ... .asp?id=45

Pupsin · **Posted:** October 1st, 2010, 2:49 pm

Wolff wrote:

your census chart isn't the same timeline as when the bible says people lived that long.

look here for proof http://www.creationworldview.org/articl ... .asp?id=45

Any website with the word "Creation" in its name when Evolution has been proven for decades, lost all validity in my mind.

Wolff · **Posted:** October 5th, 2010, 7:14 am

Pupsin wrote:

Wolff wrote:

your census chart isn't the same timeline as when the bible says people lived that long.

look here for proof http://www.creationworldview.org/articl ... .asp?id=45

Any website with the word "Creation" in its name when Evolution has been proven for decades, lost all validity in my mind.

lmao, evolution has NEVER been proven, and has infact been abandoned by most modern scientists in the past few years. you could at least check out the link. but okie

Wolff · **Posted:** October 5th, 2010, 7:18 am

just wondering, i know many of you dismiss religion, especially christianity, but none of you actually dismiss the fact that there was a man who was on this earth named Jesus correct? i mean he's recorded in hundreds of secular, christian, jewish, and arabic historical documents...

Nate · **Posted:** October 5th, 2010, 8:37 am

Wolff wrote:

lmao, evolution has NEVER been proven, and has infact been abandoned by most modern scientists in the past few years.

Urm... Has it? :?:

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** October 5th, 2010, 5:53 pm

Wolff wrote:

Pupsin wrote:

Wolff wrote:

your census chart isn't the same timeline as when the bible says people lived that long.

look here for proof http://www.creationworldview.org/articl ... .asp?id=45

Any website with the word "Creation" in its name when Evolution has been proven for decades, lost all validity in my mind.

lmao, evolution has NEVER been proven, and has infact been abandoned by most modern scientists in the past few years. you could at least check out the link. but okie

Evolution has been accepted as scientific fact, actually.

Wolff wrote:

just wondering, i know many of you dismiss religion, especially christianity, but none of you actually dismiss the fact that there was a man who was on this earth named Jesus correct? i mean he's recorded in hundreds of secular, christian, jewish, and arabic historical documents...

His existence is hardly questionable. It's whether he was the son of God, a mere prophet, or a random guy with daddy issues. I'd also like to note that since Islam and Christianity originated from Judaism, listing them all is rather redundant. The difference in those religions is primarily in what road they took after the crucifixion.

Wolff · **Posted:** October 6th, 2010, 6:18 am

Leanan Sidhe wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Pupsin wrote:

Wolff wrote:

your census chart isn't the same timeline as when the bible says people lived that long.

look here for proof http://www.creationworldview.org/articl ... .asp?id=45

Any website with the word "Creation" in its name when Evolution has been proven for decades, lost all validity in my mind.

lmao, evolution has NEVER been proven, and has infact been abandoned by most modern scientists in the past few years. you could at least check out the link. but okie

Evolution has been accepted as scientific fact, actually.

Wolff wrote:

just wondering, i know many of you dismiss religion, especially christianity, but none of you actually dismiss the fact that there was a man who was on this earth named Jesus correct? i mean he's recorded in hundreds of secular, christian, jewish, and arabic historical documents...

His existence is hardly questionable. It's whether he was the son of God, a mere prophet, or a random guy with daddy issues. I'd also like to note that since Islam and Christianity originated from Judaism, listing them all is rather redundant. The difference in those religions is primarily in what road they took after the crucifixion.

islam wasn't founded on judaism. and ya i was just asking if you guys were doubting whether or not he was even here. man or god wasn't the question. and show me proof it's been proven. they don't teach it in schools like its proof and from what i've read its being abandoned...basically show me the carfax :^_^:

Stone · **Posted:** October 9th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Leanan Sidhe wrote:

I'd like to know why (if sin is the cause of everyone's pain and suffering) that I'm perfectly healthy even despite terrible eating habits, lack of exercise, and constantly claim that God is a jerk and that I'd rather go to hell than heaven.

So instead of "why do bad things happen to good people", you're basically asking "why do good things happen to bad people"? I think they sort of end up being the same in the end; in the same way that God doesn't go around healing amputees, so to speak, he also doesn't go around randomly amputating the limbs of evil people. As for the sin comment, I'm not quite sure how to reply to what you put forth, but it sort of sounds to me like you're comparing sin to karma, sort of like the more bad things you do, the worse your life is supposed to be?

Wolff wrote:

Pupsin wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Keep in mind people back then lived to be wayyyyyyyy older than now.

You know, in a society without modern medicine and knowledge of science as we have today, people would live longer. :facepalm:

Complain about my punctuation, and go against people's age. Is that the best you have. Everything else makes sense, and yes people DID live to be older like 900 years+ back then, idc if you believe me or not

If we can quote the Bible, it does put forth some ages in Genesis 5 (Methuselah living 969 years and Jared living 962 years are the two oldest-living people mentioned in the Bible.) Sure, they didn't have modern medicine or knowledge of science, but to be fair, did they need it as badly? We have so many things going on these days that are supposedly giving us cancer or something, or leaking into the water supply, or whatever. Back then (and this was before the great flood, even) there probably weren't all THAT many diseases (though leprosy would've sucked!)

Also, Genesis 6:3 says that God stated then that man's life from then onwards would extend only to 120 years (which from a religious point of view would explain the sudden decrease in what had been people living to nearly a thousand years of age.)

Nate · **Posted:** October 16th, 2010, 2:00 pm

Stone wrote:

Leanan Sidhe wrote:

I'd like to know why (if sin is the cause of everyone's pain and suffering) that I'm perfectly healthy even despite terrible eating habits, lack of exercise, and constantly claim that God is a jerk and that I'd rather go to hell than heaven.

So instead of "why do bad things happen to good people", you're basically asking "why do good things happen to bad people"? I think they sort of end up being the same in the end; in the same way that God doesn't go around healing amputees, so to speak, he also doesn't go around randomly amputating the limbs of evil people. As for the sin comment, I'm not quite sure how to reply to what you put forth, but it sort of sounds to me like you're comparing sin to karma, sort of like the more bad things you do, the worse your life is supposed to be?

Wolff wrote:

Pupsin wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Keep in mind people back then lived to be wayyyyyyyy older than now.

You know, in a society without modern medicine and knowledge of science as we have today, people would live longer. :facepalm:

Complain about my punctuation, and go against people's age. Is that the best you have. Everything else makes sense, and yes people DID live to be older like 900 years+ back then, idc if you believe me or not

If we can quote the Bible, it does put forth some ages in Genesis 5 (Methuselah living 969 years and Jared living 962 years are the two oldest-living people mentioned in the Bible.) Sure, they didn't have modern medicine or knowledge of science, but to be fair, did they need it as badly? We have so many things going on these days that are supposedly giving us cancer or something, or leaking into the water supply, or whatever. Back then (and this was before the great flood, even) there probably weren't all THAT many diseases (though leprosy would've sucked!)

Also, Genesis 6:3 says that God stated then that man's life from then onwards would extend only to 120 years (which from a religious point of view would explain the sudden decrease in what had been people living to nearly a thousand years of age.)

Meatballs 4:2 of the book of the church of the Flying Spagetti Monster says otherwise.

Tahu 1000 · **Posted:** October 17th, 2010, 2:13 pm

Wolff wrote:

your census chart isn't the same timeline as when the bible says people lived that long.

look here for proof http://www.creationworldview.org/articl ... .asp?id=45

Quote:

People started out with perfect genetic material at the time of creation. This genetic material remained perfect until the time shortly after creation when mankind sinned.

This is straight-up wrong. We have scientific proof that humans lived tens of thousands of years ago, way before your "creation" in 4,000 B.C. Heck, most of the explanations in the above site use Biblical records (read: unreliable at best) as postulates for their arguments. Garbage in, garbage out. As for evolution, it's been proven in the short term with simpler organisms and with behavior in more complex organisms, including humans. While calling it solid, irrefutable fact is not quite correct, it is by far the best-supported theory in its field. Disputing evolution is like disputing Newton's Laws of Motion.

Wolff wrote:

While this is quite true, i honestly don't know how to prove that people lived 900 years + in age, i believe without a doubt it's true. Its something i cant explain, but i know how god has worked in my life, i know what he's done for me. I can't explain how he's taken me out of some really reallyy hard circumstances, but i know he did. As i can't explain how he managed to get me out of that hell i was in. I can't explain how people lived 900 years. But i believe its true cuz he says it. Sure i'm going to get spammed for saying "bible says it, so it must be true- what a dumb ass close minded christian" but idc. I can't explain everything, there is however facts that lead to the point that the world is only thousands of years old, not billions. Which sure doen't prove my point, but it does help with proving what the bible says is true.

Eh...I don't follow your reasoning. You know something to be true, yet you have no evidence to present to us to help prove the truthfulness of that belief? You say you know a lot of things, but you can;t explain how you know them and have no proof. That's a good way to get laughed out of a debate. You need to start basing your arguments on solid, scientifically proven facts supported by easily-followed, logical reasoning (and proper grammar and spelling wouldn't hurt), or you're going to face the fact that you have no idea how logical debates are supposed to work.

Wolff · **Posted:** October 19th, 2010, 6:28 am

Tahu 1000 wrote:

Wolff wrote:

We have scientific proof that humans lived tens of thousands of years ago, way before your "creation" in 4,000 B.C. Heck, most of the explanations in the above site use Biblical records (read: unreliable at best) as postulates for their arguments. Garbage in, garbage out. As for evolution, it's been proven in the short term with simpler organisms and with behavior in more complex organisms, including humans. While calling it solid, irrefutable fact is not quite correct, it is by far the best-supported theory in its field. quote]
That's a good way to get laughed out of a debate. You need to start basing your arguments on solid, scientifically proven facts supported by easily-followed, logical reasoning (and proper grammar and spelling wouldn't hurt), or you're going to face the fact that you have no idea how logical debates are supposed to work.

Dear Mr. Keyboard Warrior,
Where is your proof of anything? You claim to have proven that humans lived past 10,000 years. Yet i see none. No carbon dating has been done to prove humans have been around for that long. Ever...Once again argueing miniscule details like where i put my comas is rather irrelevant and annoying. Use science to prove there is NO god. Theres so many things that happen that science CANNOT explain. What happened to my fathers stage 4 cancer? The doctors told him they had months to live. There is a 95% mortality with stage 4 cancer after 5 years. (or there was at the time, idk about that rate now). After around 2 months of praying, my dad goes in for a check up to see how far the cancer had spread. And i quote the doctor "Well Erich, i don't know who you pray to....(pause)....and we can't explain it but your cancer hasn't spread, and actually it's gone.) He'll be a 10 year survivor this january. You show me no evidence and then tell me I can get laughed out of the debate. You can't see the wind but you can see the wind's effect on people and the enviroment. Same thing goes for god. And yes animals adapt to their enviroments, aswell as humans. Adaptations don't prove anything, other than ya we adapt to our surroundings when needed.

Zizi · Since Jan 17, 2008

I really don't want to join this debate since it is Christians only, but according to my religion the world is only 2260 years old.

Tahu 1000 · **Posted:** October 19th, 2010, 9:16 am

Wolff wrote:

Dear Mr. Keyboard Warrior,
Where is your proof of anything? You claim to have proven that humans lived past 10,000 years. Yet i see none. No carbon dating has been done to prove humans have been around for that long. Ever...Once again argueing miniscule details like where i put my comas is rather irrelevant and annoying. Use science to prove there is NO god. Theres so many things that happen that science CANNOT explain. What happened to my fathers stage 4 cancer? The doctors told him they had months to live. There is a 95% mortality with stage 4 cancer after 5 years. (or there was at the time, idk about that rate now). After around 2 months of praying, my dad goes in for a check up to see how far the cancer had spread. And i quote the doctor "Well Erich, i don't know who you pray to....(pause)....and we can't explain it but your cancer hasn't spread, and actually it's gone.) He'll be a 10 year survivor this january. You show me no evidence and then tell me I can get laughed out of the debate. You can't see the wind but you can see the wind's effect on people and the enviroment. Same thing goes for god. And yes animals adapt to their enviroments, aswell as humans. Adaptations don't prove anything, other than ya we adapt to our surroundings when needed.

Um, the proof that humans lived tens of thousands of years ago is plentiful, to say the least. Pigments from cave paintings carbon-date back 40,000 years or so, while fossil records concur. Not only that, there's a relatively unbroken fossil record going back at least a million years that shows the transition between ape-like creatures and modern humans. Now, you wanted proof:
Smithsonian Institute page on human evolution. Includes fossils, timelines, and much more.
Just because science cannot yet explain something does not mean that God exists, only that science contains many fields that are still progressing and making new discoveries. As for your wind argument, while we cannot see the wind, we can prove that air exists and has a definite mass. No such proof exists for God.
You admit that animals and humans adapt. Therefore, how can you say that said adaptation has not been going on for over a billion years, starting with simple protozoa and ending with the life on Earth now?
Lastly, the grammar. It's downright annoying to try and puzzle out your arguments when you fail to use proper sentence structure, capitalization, and other such conventions of the English language, and, quite frankly, your poor writing does not reflect well on your argument.

Wolff · **Posted:** October 25th, 2010, 6:18 am

Tahu 1000 wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Dear Mr. Keyboard Warrior,
Where is your proof of anything? You claim to have proven that humans lived past 10,000 years. Yet i see none. No carbon dating has been done to prove humans have been around for that long. Ever...Once again argueing miniscule details like where i put my comas is rather irrelevant and annoying. Use science to prove there is NO god. Theres so many things that happen that science CANNOT explain. What happened to my fathers stage 4 cancer? The doctors told him they had months to live. There is a 95% mortality with stage 4 cancer after 5 years. (or there was at the time, idk about that rate now). After around 2 months of praying, my dad goes in for a check up to see how far the cancer had spread. And i quote the doctor "Well Erich, i don't know who you pray to....(pause)....and we can't explain it but your cancer hasn't spread, and actually it's gone.) He'll be a 10 year survivor this january. You show me no evidence and then tell me I can get laughed out of the debate. You can't see the wind but you can see the wind's effect on people and the enviroment. Same thing goes for god. And yes animals adapt to their enviroments, aswell as humans. Adaptations don't prove anything, other than ya we adapt to our surroundings when needed.

Um, the proof that humans lived tens of thousands of years ago is plentiful, to say the least. Pigments from cave paintings carbon-date back 40,000 years or so, while fossil records concur. Not only that, there's a relatively unbroken fossil record going back at least a million years that shows the transition between ape-like creatures and modern humans. Now, you wanted proof:
Smithsonian Institute page on human evolution. Includes fossils, timelines, and much more.
Just because science cannot yet explain something does not mean that God exists, only that science contains many fields that are still progressing and making new discoveries. As for your wind argument, while we cannot see the wind, we can prove that air exists and has a definite mass. No such proof exists for God.
You admit that animals and humans adapt. Therefore, how can you say that said adaptation has not been going on for over a billion years, starting with simple protozoa and ending with the life on Earth now?
Lastly, the grammar. It's downright annoying to try and puzzle out your arguments when you fail to use proper sentence structure, capitalization, and other such conventions of the English language, and, quite frankly, your poor writing does not reflect well on your argument.

Sorry I was gone last week at convention. But here is some evidence that goes against carbon 14 dating http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... -the-bible. On your point about adaptations and protozoa: How did these protozoa come about? Who/What made the protozoa?

Pupsin · **Posted:** October 25th, 2010, 8:50 am

Wolff wrote:

Tahu 1000 wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Dear Mr. Keyboard Warrior,
Where is your proof of anything? You claim to have proven that humans lived past 10,000 years. Yet i see none. No carbon dating has been done to prove humans have been around for that long. Ever...Once again argueing miniscule details like where i put my comas is rather irrelevant and annoying. Use science to prove there is NO god. Theres so many things that happen that science CANNOT explain. What happened to my fathers stage 4 cancer? The doctors told him they had months to live. There is a 95% mortality with stage 4 cancer after 5 years. (or there was at the time, idk about that rate now). After around 2 months of praying, my dad goes in for a check up to see how far the cancer had spread. And i quote the doctor "Well Erich, i don't know who you pray to....(pause)....and we can't explain it but your cancer hasn't spread, and actually it's gone.) He'll be a 10 year survivor this january. You show me no evidence and then tell me I can get laughed out of the debate. You can't see the wind but you can see the wind's effect on people and the enviroment. Same thing goes for god. And yes animals adapt to their enviroments, aswell as humans. Adaptations don't prove anything, other than ya we adapt to our surroundings when needed.

Um, the proof that humans lived tens of thousands of years ago is plentiful, to say the least. Pigments from cave paintings carbon-date back 40,000 years or so, while fossil records concur. Not only that, there's a relatively unbroken fossil record going back at least a million years that shows the transition between ape-like creatures and modern humans. Now, you wanted proof:
Smithsonian Institute page on human evolution. Includes fossils, timelines, and much more.
Just because science cannot yet explain something does not mean that God exists, only that science contains many fields that are still progressing and making new discoveries. As for your wind argument, while we cannot see the wind, we can prove that air exists and has a definite mass. No such proof exists for God.
You admit that animals and humans adapt. Therefore, how can you say that said adaptation has not been going on for over a billion years, starting with simple protozoa and ending with the life on Earth now?
Lastly, the grammar. It's downright annoying to try and puzzle out your arguments when you fail to use proper sentence structure, capitalization, and other such conventions of the English language, and, quite frankly, your poor writing does not reflect well on your argument.

Sorry I was gone last week at convention. But here is some evidence that goes against carbon 14 dating http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... -the-bible. On your point about adaptations and protozoa: How did these protozoa come about? Who/What made the protozoa?

If I were you, I'd consider posting unbiased links whose slogan was not "believing it. defending it. proclaiming it."

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** October 25th, 2010, 2:28 pm

Wolff wrote:

How did these protozoa come about? Who/What made the protozoa?

Who/what made gods and deities?

Discrimin8 · **Posted:** October 25th, 2010, 2:58 pm

Leanan Sidhe wrote:

Wolff wrote:

How did these protozoa come about? Who/What made the protozoa?

Who/what made gods and deities?

Hurrdurr what made the big bang?

These arguments are pointless. They never go anywhere and just lead to butthurt.

10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

Who is online