Agreed. To add on to that, when I read the story from Adam and Eve, I found it to be quite sexist. Supposedly, God made both man and woman equal, yet Adam was made out of clay and Eve was born from a part of Adam's body. How come Eve wasn't made out of clay as well? Furthermore, it is Eve that is fooled by the serpent to eat the fruit but why isn't it both of them? The only time Adam eats of the fruit is because of Eve handing a piece to him. So in other words, women are much more prone to fall into any temptation? And the only time a man falls into temptation is when a woman is tempting him?

As Nateman already pointed out, much of the editing done to the bible is reflective upon the patriarchal society at the time. I find it terribly difficult to believe that the bible is the word of God.

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Props to steve-loser on the old sig.

To add on to that, it's also always referred to as Adam's sin, not Eve's. Because Adam was the "man of the house" and should've stepped up and said no to Eve. Which is kinda ridiculous.

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Natemania! The Nateman sensation that's sweeping the nation!


Thanks for the sig, Viruz.
"Ambition is the last refuge of failure." ~Oscar Wilde

The dinosaurs left behind fossils, which paleontologists then dug up and studied. Now, what I'm dismissing in the Bible is the divine element; Moses did lead his people across the Red Sea out of Egypt, but he didn't have to part the waters; he did it when the waters receded naturally as part of the seasonal changes in the region. Jericho's walls were felled by an earthquake, not by any divine will. Also, the Bible is a lot more specific about what happened than paleontologists; we don't really know what color the dinosaurs were, for the most part, and we only know what we do about their lifestyle from fossils.

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Tahu 1000 - Former Member

While there are far more male pastors than women pastors, women are still allowed to be pastors....

And no I did not legalize terrorism and genocide. An example would be like if the Jews could've stood up to the Nazis. Nazis constantly belittled, exploited, attacked, and killed Jewish people. Being passive to the Nazis did nothing for the Jews. If as a group Jews could've stood up to the Nazis and fought back, they would have to kill the Nazi children, Nazi wives, and Nazi soldiers to totally defeat them. The children were trained almost on par with the actual soldiers, and the mothers also attributed to the war effort. To effectively stop them, they would have to kill anyone apart of that party.

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"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein."
Taylor Swift all day 'err day

Are you suggesting the Bible is a more reliable source than the mountains of testable and observable scientific evidence on the history of Earth?


What?

This isn't a game. Do you really believe that?

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Stop making Christians look bad. Thanks.

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So, you're claiming that, since the Nazi party was committing genocide against the Jews, any Jewish rebel movement would be justified in terrorism, targeting civilians, and basically responding in kind to the actions of the Nazis? "Fight fire with fire" is not always the best solution. While there aren't any rules, per se, in war, targeting civilians is wrong. Soldiers accept that they may be killed by the enemy when they join the army, but civilians who never signed on for that risk should not be targeted. In a similar example, by your train of thought it is acceptable to target enemy medical personnel, since any soldiers they rescue might come back to the front lines.

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Tahu 1000 - Former Member

Just making a curious observation here - For the people who "update their beliefs for the times", can that even be considered following the same faith?

To the people who believe the bible is trufax and God exists and all that jazz, aren't they basically denying the religion by modifying the beliefs to be in tune with today's societal ideals? If the bible is God's word, you can't really just say "Oh I don't agree with sexism and I think gay people are pretty alright" - In that case, you'd be denying what God expects. This has always bugged me. If you're a Christian who picks and chooses what to believe in the bible, then you're not really a Christian, are you?

It's like... "Oh, I believe in God and the bible, but I think certain parts are outdated. Regardless of the fact that God is omniscient and his word should basically be considered the ultimate truth regardless of what society has decided in recent years." At that point it's like you either believe that there is a God who does not meet the defining characteristics of Christianity, or the Christian God exists and you're pretty much committing blasphemy by denying certain parts of the bible or whatever.

These people kind of bug me more than the people who think homosexuality is wrong, women are inferior, and slavery was pretty much awesome - At least those people are sticking to their guns.

Well, we know that:
- Slavery and women were social norms in Biblical time
- Homosexuality's sinfulness is greatly exaggerated
- The "Word of God" is frequently, even in this day and age, changed

We can assume that:
- The Bible's ideas of loving neighbors and helping others were very outspokenly progressive for its time. While they couldn't have overtly attacked slavery or sexism, the underlying themes in various stories and teachings make it seem like these ideas were being undermined.
- Homosexuality is just as kosher with God as not being kosher. In fact, it was labeled as such (even though English translations mistranslated it as an "abomination"). It was actually just a cultural taboo and probably served a practical purpose in prevent diseases from becoming widespread due to protection not existing thousands of years ago.
- The Bible contains far less of "God's word" than religious institutions would like you to believe. I would guess that stories that teach us valuable lessons are okay, history is generally so-so, and when a character directly says "This is good and this is bad," it's probably seen more edits than Obama's wikipedia entry.

I think you're trying to describe people who just want to say "oh yeah I believe in God" and then do whatever they want with their life. I'm trying to describe people within religion that are progressive and changing the way religion thinks. "Well, did God really say that? Would God really hate them?"

My Aunt is actually a minister and actively teaches against these wacky hateful ideas that were planted in the religion long ago for political control. In fact, I almost ended up doing something similar with my life.

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Natemania! The Nateman sensation that's sweeping the nation!


Thanks for the sig, Viruz.
"Ambition is the last refuge of failure." ~Oscar Wilde

If you really cared about it, then you would argue your own opinions. Sitting back and ridiculing me really does nothing for the debate.

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"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein."
Taylor Swift all day 'err day

So you wouldn't shoot medics in a war? You realize medical personnel do carry guns right? While my example was bad, I really can't think of a better one to give. And the reason I used the Nazi's as an example was because everyone contributed to the genocide. The youth participated in it through Hitler Youth and the League of German Maiden. And the wives contributed to the war effort through working in factories, and raising their children with nazi ideals. So yes I'm saying if the Jewish people could've stood up to them it would've been rationalized. And my question is, what might you have them do? Would you have them sit around and take it? If an enemy medic is working on an enemy soldier that just killed your friend, are you going to shoot him? You're supposed to protect your home. I would love to see you rationalize your train of thought to a soldier. Murdering civilians isn't right, and I'm not saying sure kill 'em all, but in the context of the original verse we were talking about; standing up for yourself is the right thing to do.

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"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein."
Taylor Swift all day 'err day

[quote="Nateman"]Well, we know that:
- Slavery and women were social norms in Biblical time
- Homosexuality's sinfulness is greatly exaggerated
- The "Word of God" is frequently, even in this day and age, changed

We can assume that:
- The Bible's ideas of loving neighbors and helping others were very outspokenly progressive for its time. While they couldn't have overtly attacked slavery or sexism, the underlying themes in various stories and teachings make it seem like these ideas were being undermined.
- Homosexuality is just as kosher with God as not being kosher. In fact, it was labeled as such (even though English translations mistranslated it as an "abomination"). It was actually just a cultural taboo and probably served a practical purpose in prevent diseases from becoming widespread due to protection not existing thousands of years ago.
- The Bible contains far less of "God's word" than religious institutions would like you to believe. I would guess that stories that teach us valuable lessons are okay, history is generally so-so, and when a character directly says "This is good and this is bad," it's probably seen more edits than Obama's wikipedia entry.

I think you're trying to describe people who just want to say "oh yeah I believe in God" and then do whatever they want with their life. I'm trying to describe people within religion that are progressive and changing the way religion thinks. "Well, did God really say that? Would God really hate them?"

My Aunt is actually a minister and actively teaches against these wacky hateful ideas that were planted in the religion long ago for political control. In fact, I almost ended up doing something similar with my life.[/quote

Am I to assume this was aimed at me?

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"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein."
Taylor Swift all day 'err day

Would you? Do you have it in you to shoot doctors and nurses?

Again, this isn't a game. Grow up and learn a thing or two about the value of life.

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No, because it wasn't aimed at you at all. It was aimed at Goten.

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Natemania! The Nateman sensation that's sweeping the nation!


Thanks for the sig, Viruz.
"Ambition is the last refuge of failure." ~Oscar Wilde

Shooting medical personnel, no matter which side they're on, goes against the Geneva Conventions.

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Tahu 1000 - Former Member

No. That's so far wrong there isn't even a starting point for me to argue against, wrong from start to finish (Medics, participation in genocide, rebellion against Nazis, etc). I'm a Christian and you are promoting values and ideas which are outside the boundaries of the faith. Ask your local pastor whether it is ok to murder medics. Ask your pastor whether it is ok to kill children because they're German.

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You're right this is a debate forum on a fansite for a game, not an actual game. Don't try to talk down to me like I'm some twelve year old, because being condescending doesn't really further your argument. And honestly I really don't get what point it is that you are trying to make. Combat medics aren't just doctors/nurses, they carry weapons and are trained how to effectively use them. It's not the same as shooting up a doctor's office...

Lastly, I'm not saying in war you should kill innocent civilians, however enemy soldiers know what they're signing up for when their country goes to war.

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"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein."
Taylor Swift all day 'err day

I'm not saying because they're german, but if they're attacking you because of what they learned in the Hitler Youth I would consider them the same as soldiers. The Hitler Youth children defended Germany just as regular soldiers did, and that was my point. I'm not trying to rationalize another holocaust, the point was in that I was trying to show an instance where people that are usually considered civilians act as soldiers....

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"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein."
Taylor Swift all day 'err day

Keyword soldiers. That means armed and trained military personnel.
Also, here's the relevant section of the Geneva Convention:

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Tahu 1000 - Former Member

By that logic it's ok to kill American civilians if the USA is ever invaded, because they all have guns and would defend America.

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