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 Post subject: Re: Thought experiment.
PostPosted: August 12th, 2011, 2:10 pm 
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Why do you consider my post disgusting? If she is unable to care for herself, who will? Would you force her family to do so? If not, the taxpayer?

These questions aren't pleasant. Of course they're not; the world is not a pleasant place. They do need to be answered to fully explore this issue, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought experiment.
PostPosted: August 13th, 2011, 12:35 pm 
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If she is unable to feed herself, chances are she'll have family to help her. If not, it is not a huge blow to the state for it to help her.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought experiment.
PostPosted: August 15th, 2011, 3:04 am 
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I'm sure if they were family, they wouldn't mind helping the child and providing for her.
In fact, I know a couple who has a severely mentally challenged daughter. She is around 23 years old or so and they're still taking care of her.
Now, I know it's not as drastic as a person completely devoid of sentience, but it's still close. Their daughter cannot support herself in any case, whether is be financially (cannot work a job), nutritionally (cannot eat by herself), or any other situation requiring hand-eye coordination.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought experiment.
PostPosted: August 15th, 2011, 3:32 pm 
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Wolfwood, the point I'm trying to make is that even if there was no-one volunteering to do it, someone should, even if the state has to pay for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought experiment.
PostPosted: October 16th, 2011, 12:48 am 
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Nate wrote:
Wolfwood, the point I'm trying to make is that even if there was no-one volunteering to do it, someone should, even if the state has to pay for it.


Yeah, let's make everybody else subsidize one family's bad decision. The thing should have been aborted if there was any prior knowledge whatsoever, and if there wasn't and it can't become a productive member of society, it should be left to die. It's different if the family wants to - and has the means - to take care of it, because that's their decision. I sure as hell don't want to spend my tax dollars on what amounts to a living carcass, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought experiment.
PostPosted: October 28th, 2011, 5:52 am 
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I see two separate ideas in your premise- one about her senses, and the other about how we define or describe experience. I don't take it for granted that consciousness leads automatically to the kind of realization you're talking about. I think Life and Existence are perceptible, but definitely philosophical constructions.

Would she know she was alive? that concept wouldn't exist, would it? if you're taking it as a given that humans are the only animal that know they are mortal, well, i've never seen enough proof of that idea.

She would know the difference between alseep and not, since they are different (awake probably would hurt more) but that doesn't mean she would designate them, or anything else she encountered, as we think of them.

The wacky sensory deprivation stuff like dreams is stimulus wholly manufactured by the person; and memory too in modern thought is part of imagination-- most of what we 'remember' is a tiny bit of real memory, and a lot of filling in the blanks.

I am reminded though of the aboriginal belief in dreams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime
To sum that up badly, the dream world is also a real world.

I can't imagine at all what you would dream without a memory bank of experience, but the brain would take care of doing just that.

(And that some creatures have memory, but not brains, and that gets things into a whole different topic.. so i won't go there.)

Comapre it to insanity, though, and the glib phrase "insanity might be a sane reaction to an insane world."
She may not be able to control what she perceives, and what she feels, but her reaction to it could be completely appropriate *for her situation*

So, whatever state she would be in, and so long as no one adds martians to the scenario, she would be as conscious and existing as anyone else, for her situation. That's my answer.

I'm sorry I can't be more clear, i suck at this, and this is so complex it's making me tired.

LondonLooter wrote:
The real question would be what to do with the girl. Who would be expected to shoulder the burden of dealing with her? The world may be better off without her, depending on your point of view.
No, the real question is the one at the top of the page-- you can't miss it, it's the thread topic.
LondonLooter wrote:
... If she is unable to care for herself, who will? Would you force her family to do so? If not, the taxpayer?
Just one taxpayer-?


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