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 Post subject: Re: CERN scientists 'break the speed of light'
PostPosted: September 27th, 2011, 1:38 pm 
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Znath wrote:
Basically this
"Why can't we go faster than light"

Here's how I see it.
KE = 0.5 MV^2

So no... mass doesn't increase. Kinetic energy does.
The problem is the "^2"
So you also have the reverse of it meaning how much energy it would take to get an object to light speed. And I think this is what really freaks scientists out is how many zeros there are.
That's how much fuel/energy/etc you'd need to push it.

It seems a lot easier to say "well.. force reaches infinity" or "time dilation" will simply prevent light speed from being viable.

Time dilation is that idea that if you go beyond light speed, time slows down around you.
This is in some relation to bending time and high velocity...etc etc, it's extremely complicated and in my opinion... wrong.

In what I'd like to call "the physical universe" time dilation doesn't happen. The more energy you put into something.. the faster it goes. It's as simple as that in my opinion.

Here's the problem there though. In a purely physical reactive universe with no space magic or space-time you have to deliver that force. A chemical rocket works by shooting heated gas out the back which effectively bounces off the rocket to push it. So to go light speed, you need something extremely forceful and fast to go faster. Eventually a chemical rocket can't go that speed.

Eventually even an atomic powered rocket won't get any faster. Beyond that, what would start to approach light speed? The holy grail seems to be antimatter by the assumption you can either control the reaction if it's big... or that it doesn't just neutralize and do nothing. The fastest acting forces we know of are gravity, magnetism, and possibly antimatter.

The biggest obstacle is "how do you deliver the energy" even a golfball would take tremendously large amounts of energy to get to light speed even ignoring the mass of the rocket needed it takes a ton of energy probably in the order of 1000000000000000 joules kinds of energy or roughly the force of an atomic bomb focused solely on a golfball to move lightspeed.

Even assuming you have enough fuel to do so, it takes more and exponentially more energy to go a tiny bit faster. Meaning that even if we got to 90% light speed 91% would probably take double the energy... kind of like leveling on RS. And containing the force of several nuclear bombs exploding would be very hard.




TLDR? Why is this article important?
Because even though tachyons and super-lightspeed particles have existed before
Humans caused it this time! Before it's all natural reactions and low mass particles like electrons.
This means you CAN move mass beyond light speed with force alone.

This could potentially lead to highspeed rocket engines much like the ion-rockets where low mass particles + extremely high velocity = high velocity rocket with low fuel use.

I.. just.. disagree with a lot of this post

First of all, time dilation doesn't happen when you exceed light speed, it happens all the time (clocks run slower when moving)

Also you seem to just take a lot of the science and theories which you don't understand and say "That doesn't make sense to me, so I don't believe it"

I can't blame you for not understanding it (I sure don't understand it) but there are a great number of people who do, and who can back it up and have proven a lot of those theories

lightspeed (which is a bit of a misnomer, it is the speed at which light travels, but when referring to it as the fastest something can go you could just say the speed of a massless particle, light merely has that speed because it is a massless particle) is the fastest speed achievable (or thought to be) because it has no mass

The famous E= mc^2 only works for a body at rest (v = 0), there is a hidden variable in there with a value of 1 when v equals 0, so it is omitted

I recommend you read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightspeed ... in_physics

I found it to be quite easy to understand, even though I don't know the underlying (verified) physics and found it made sense

Although I suppose it is that very verification which is being disputed by this discovery, so who knows

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 Post subject: Re: CERN scientists 'break the speed of light'
PostPosted: September 27th, 2011, 6:39 pm 
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I do understand it. I chose simply to not believe the outcome of the time dilation and light barrier nonsense.

The equation is simple F=MV^2
It's not F=M (V but only if V is lower than...)^2
And gradually as time goes on and science advances, we're finding.. gasp... these barriers aren't as hard as we thought.

You can throw a watch into a rocket and see what happens
but you have to take into account forces on gears, or if it's digital, temperature of the operating components, vibrations (since the crystal vibration measures time), radiation, etc
Any outside force can effect the operation of almost any clock or timing mechanism.

I've never really found a good explanation or scientific proof showing actual experimentation proving time slowing down at high speeds.
But when you eliminate the idea of magic or space-time. Things line up fine.

The best scientists at the end of ww2 thought that the sound barrier was completely impossible to pass.
It was believed that as velocity increased, air resistance did too exponentially.
Therefor at mach1 wind resistance = infinity... sound familiar?

Any time science can't explain something... the answer seems to always be "many"

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 Post subject: Re: CERN scientists 'break the speed of light'
PostPosted: September 27th, 2011, 6:43 pm 
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It's pretty common for people to think of a complicated phenomenon like time dilation as "magical" or impossible. Just show fire to a caveman and see how they react. However, to brush it off as "wrong" just because it's too complicated for you to fully understand isn't exactly an educated opinion. :?: Time dilation isn't just some science fiction nonsense, it is a real and measurable phenomenon. In fact, if I recall correctly, the effects of time dilation need to be taken into account to keep GPS systems and their satellites communicating properly, otherwise your GPS reading would be imprecise.

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 Post subject: Re: CERN scientists 'break the speed of light'
PostPosted: September 27th, 2011, 6:53 pm 
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I certainly don't believe it's enough to prevent light speed travel.

As far as satellites go I imagine in time we'll find a better explanation than time dilation for how all that works out. Couldn't it be just as well to explain that gravity and the earth's magnetic field have some unknown effect to explain these differences? If you want a pure experiment on relativity and time dilation. Get two identical timers into deep space and have one move faster than the other.

But comparing two identical clocks in non-identical situations where gravity, magnetism, and radiation, etc. are all different. I think it's a little high and mighty to think that suddenly we've proven time dilation with just that.

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