Gut feeling that, of the three, at least one has to be a villager or this game is so one-sided with the three of you. If that's the case, if at least one of you is mafia, I think it is Kikori. If two, I think Kik and Top.

My feelings may change but as it stands, my gut says you aren't the mafia.

Watch the game ending with you winning as mafia. Egg and my face will be in alignment

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I just realized, looking through my previous post, I'd forgotten to delete the all-capitalized section and replace it with the regularly typed spot. The caps were looking too angry in my eyes to want to post. Whoops. ;-;

So, with that aside and working from the last post up that I saw before starting to write this one.

Palm, meet face. Hi face, nice to meet you.

Jack: I don't like you.
Jill: Why?
Jack: Because I saw you breaking my pail.
Jill: No, no, I was trying to fix it! There was a hole made from our last tumble, I thought you saw it.
Jack: Oh, so that's why my feet got wet. I guess my attack against you wasn't justified.

Question. Would it be right for little Jack to keep raining down on Jill after having heard a reason that explained why a behavior happened? I'd hope not. The only difference between that exchange and the one with me and Top was the amount of misunderstandings. His about my roleclaim happening during a period where I didn't even know my role, mine about if he knew it or not.

To him, that would mean my posts were serious and my behavior suspicious enough to make an attack on.
To me, that would mean his posts were as jokative as they were with Lander during the "Ah hah!" game.

So yes, my "defense" against Top was idiotic at best and pretty damn fruitless. But did you notice? I DIDN'T VOTE FOR HIM. I HAD "BIGGER FISH TO FRY", i.e. Lander. Until the assumption was cleared up, I didn't know I was responding to a legit attack against me. So yes, the exchange is going to look stupid. But would you rather me turn it into an attack that actually holds water just because he didn't know something based on a matter of time? Once again, I'd hope not.

If the entire basis for your attack against me is that I "fake argued with him and broke off day one just to keep distant", try again. There are two genuine misunderstandings at play behind both of our sides of that argument, and it was fruitless to continue once they were cleared up.

Except it's not the "entire bases". There's one small point I'd like to look at.
"Page two: Firstly he comments on inactivity. Understandable, he has spent the day trying to increase activity. First gut instinct from me - mafia pushing for a day one lynch to increase his odds."
I can not recall a single game I have played (mafia, villager, third party, or otherwise) where I hoped for anything BUT a lynch to end the day. I am sincerely glad, Henry, that is not the best you've got. Because I'd be laughing otherwise.

---

Lander, there are two admittedly poorly constructed points out of my attack against you I feel are worth merit.


Important point 1.) As heavily as you can imply it without saying it, you are treating me like scum due to an argument based off misunderstandings and a POTENTIAL (but not yet practiced) lack of initiative in making progress in information.



Recall, that's the timeline for how the wait happened for our day-one shenanigans. I may be bad at jokative attacks on Mafia--for some reason I have a hard time grasping the concept of keeping my logic openly on the humorous side when trying it--but when waiting for the 'inevitable' to go ahead and pass seems to turn into being called scum, having my attempt at a jokative argument with Top called scummy? Yeah, I'm a little on edge. Add to that almost everything I've done seems to just plain annoy and aggravate you this game so far?

Important point 2.) While I can't discredit the truth behind your logic (to a degree), almost every single one of your posts, like those of Monk and Henry in the Neighbors Variant, seems hell bent on discrediting my play style.

And while we're at it, important point 3.) You wanna know why I wanted to sit back a bit? The term "burnt out" is applicable to me after having poured so much thought into Neighbors (as you yourself saw both the amount and the intensity). Yet I couldn't miss a chance to finally play alongside you, not with the last chance of it ending in a night-one death of me. Call it running on fumes if you want, but my heart is in this a lot more than my head is for the moment. So yes, a lot of my day one is pretty damn stupid. In all honesty, I'll probably look back at it and facepalm with utmost enthusiasm at allowing myself to get swayed so easily by genuine or solid statements.
While I'm at it with the heartfelt. I don't apologize for the subpar logic, but I do apologize for the grief I seem to have caused Lander this game.

And now we arrive at the most recent posts. Henry, I'll remind you that playing the odds is something to be done when lynching on day one with no clue, and if you arrive at the final day with no clue. Otherwise, do recall that it's just as possible for all power players involved to be mafia as it is for all to be villagers.

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Goten is dead!

Lander, there are two admittedly poorly constructed points out of my attack against you I feel are worth merit.

And turned around to say...


There we go. Fixed the derped BBcode--it just looks plain ugly with actual speech written in the "Who wrote it" section. Though I will admit, I didn't know that section was so flexible.

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Goten is dead!

I don't think you're causing me as much grief as you seem to believe. At the very most, I get mildly annoyed at some things you say sometimes. As you say, you use gut. I hardly ever do. What does this amount to for us, this early in the game? You're looking at it.

I've also credited you that even though I may not like your style sometimes, you are right more often than not. On these grounds, I can't exactly fault you. Just remember what I said about how you arrive at a conclusion being almost as important as that conclusion being right. Also recall our countless conversations on the subject outside the thread. Only note that I find your hot-headed demeanor and incessant needling for sometimes less-than-stellar reasons tiresome every now and again.

What it really boils down to is I was partially joking about arguing with you on day one, and you took it literally and I never really corrected you, because if (somewhat) quality information can be generated at this stage, why wait? At least it can serve a building blocks for later as well as a reason to come back and look at our D1 exchanges when making evaluations later.

In terms of the quoted, I suppose I should contextualize them. There weren't enough quality posts or posters in the game where I saw Scar lynched. I had to generate nearly all of the info in that game myself. I had to see someone lynched, whether they were town or not. In a game like this one, with you, Doc Henry, Aragorn, and Top all playing, I don't need to go to such drastic measures. This DOES NOT equate to me being lazy or not participating. It equates to me not supporting the 'lynch at all costs' mentality.

And for a guy who quickly curses others as scum for faulty code and other similar errors, you sure are digging yourself such a hole...

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I find myself having to quote myself a lot to bring up points that seem to get quickly skimmed over or utterly ignored.



You've said numerous times this topic I should know you better about some ways you play. Tell me, when's the last time I've actually successfully joked with an argument on day one? To the best of my memory, it would have to have been years ago. If you want to argue with me and openly say so, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and rush into it. No jokes about it.


My gods, is this really how annoying it is to be on the receiving end of the "It's a stupid point that's been all but debunked already but still being pushed" behavior I give out to others?

Read this one final time. MY EXCHANGE WITH TOPSUMMONER WAS, IN MY EYES, AN ATTEMPT AT A JOKATIVE ARGUMENT. I failed, I derped, I came up un-funny, and until the last couple posts in the exchange, I came up one-sided about who was actually joking around. If you continue to call out my point against his BBcode, I will continue to just shake my head, sigh it off, and laugh at it. Bringing it up to me will earn the same level of serious that was involved in posting it to Top in the first place: not that much.

I'd also like to point out embedding a link to a post within a quote's "Who wrote it" section is far more difficult than simply adjusting quotes and authors. Not intended as justification, but it's probably the only thing I'm really prone to have an accident on. <3

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Goten is dead!

As I implied in my post, I only thought you had and didn't actually check to see. And that's the point, you could have killed me and ended my plan right there, but you said yourself that you thought I had some plan that would get us a Mafia win so you unvoted me. You call me a backstabber, and while that may be true you are at the very least an accomplice because I couldn't have done it without you unvoting me, and without you mis-typing that I wasn't Mafia.

The only reason I wanted him dead was because I wanted to ensure you couldn't do what I was attempting to do. At that point Henry was gone, or close to it, and I wanted him dead just encase it dawned on you what I was trying to do.

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with all this arguing, its the vote that kills.

so far:

Lander ---> voted for Aragorn
Top ---> voted for Ex Rex
Kik ---> voted for Landerpurex
Scar
Godders
Market
Riptide
Dr Henry ---> voted for kikori
Aragorn
Tahu
Ex Rex ---> voted for Tahu

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All I have to say about this is that I legitimately didn't know about the PMs being late. I skimmed the first page of play because I didn't want Lander to beat me to our obligatory joke-votes on eachother (which he did D: ) and missed Ex Rex's comment about the PMs not being in. I was trying to think of things I had talked to with Lander between games, and was trying to 'latch on to one scummy thing' to generate information. When the late PMs were pointed out to me, I had no reason to continue arguing with Kikori.

It was a pointless argument out of a mistake on my part, but you can't deny that it did generate information.



I am just trying something new here, that is all.



That's not how hosting works. Roles are picked at random, not handed out for balance's sake.

@ Ex Rex

I know you've been posting, but I was more calling on you to contribute something that wasn't a joke. Between Henry, Kikori, Lander and I, at the very least, there must be something you can comment on or add to.

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[quote="Market Man6]so far...
Market[/quote]

Market Man6

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You realize I can't resist the chance to joke about this one, Lander.
For saying I'm digging my own grave for messing up BBcode after making an attack about Top messing up his BBcode, you sure are following in our footsteps.

The point is agreed with, though. Market, there's been more than enough to go on for almost anyone to get voted for (especially in a few veterans' cases). If the votes are divided, it's a good idea to try to find something to converge them on. Pointing it out and just twiddling your thumbs is just a bit in the opposite direction.

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Goten is dead!

Firstly, I actually agree with Lander and Kik (TOGETHER?!?!? OMG YOU ARE ALL MAFIA!!!!!) that Market just did a really pointless thing. In perhaps the most productive Day One I've seen, we have four players all actually being serious to some extent, with serious votes too. At the very least I would demand some sort of opinion based on one of the four of us! Even just a "I'm not really sure what to make of this whole argument yet" rather than completely ignoring it.

Secondly, Kikori. Addressing the whole "i'm going to laugh in his face because of how poor your attack on me is" feeling I'm getting from your response, let me state these three facts:

1) It may be the case, I haven't slept in a few nights so I'm probably not in the best mindset.
2) It is Day One, I've admitted that I don't have MUCH to go on, but I've laid out my gut feeling, with a vote to show the strength, and explained the reasoning BEHIND the gut feeling - it is more than you've done something.
3) To any Kikori-sheep, don't just assume that there is nothing true within my posts/feelings about Kikori just because he attempts to discredit it with declaratives such as


You know what that says most to me? That I'm right.

Now you appear to have backtracked slightly with claims of not being fully in the game and allowing your heart to steer emotions rather than your head. Maybe you are just saving face for being caught out as mafia so early? You and Top both changing playstyles (Top can claim that he wants to try something different all he wants, and you can claim burnout all you want)... I'm not buying it.

Also, I sincerely hope that you and Lander are not seriously going to have an argument about BBCode

Finally, for now, I will admit that playing the odds is not a sound response... but frankly the odds against it are so high that I'm willing to take the risk.

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Oh, one more thing...

Scar and Godders. Quit ignoring the main arguments going on, try to contribute to them rather than wasting time discussing who betrayed who in a different game. Yes, there are 'revenge kills' and you could arguably say that my attack on Kikori today mirrors his on me in the previous game (although I will defend myself and state that my reasons for this attack are nothing to do with the previous game... they really aren't!) but still, get over it...

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If I came across as wanting to laugh at your entire attack, rest assured, that was not the case. All I might have laughed at is what I quoted, the idea that "I'm pushing for a day-one lynch because I'm Mafia and want to thin the numbers out ASAP". That statement on its own is ridiculous, especially when compared to how I play the game. It only gets pointed out this time because you have other points to present that can make me look scummy. What does that say to me?
"It's how you normally play, but because it can help my argument against you, I'm bringing it up this time. If you play like that in other games and it's the only reason to see you as scummy, I won't mention it."
'cause, you know, that's pretty much been the case since Mafia came to the public.

The rest of your case against me wasn't laughable, merely based off the assumption that Topsummoner and I fabricated an argument and cut it short to try to place distance between us. It's sound, but it's false, and I do grow tired of quoting myself to show why. Understanding the why requires two things--the ability to see from another's perspective, and the willingness to believe said perspective to be true. If you're failing in the first point, I'm going to be genuinely shocked since I know you're better than that. And trying to force you into the second would be downright stupid, I can say it a million times but if you have it in your head that it's not the case, all I can do is chuckle at knowing the truth and pray the rest of the players don't rally behind an attack based on a false assumption.

And as far as I'm concerned, BBcode mistakes are something to have a laugh at and correct if possible. So I'm not sure about Lander, but I know I wasn't serious about anything I've said revolving around the perfect use of BBcode.

One thing I found interesting in your post.



If I could try to summarize my playstyle in three simple steps...

• Wait for someone to attack me / my gut to see something to attack
• Charge in head first and worry about the "perfection" of the logic later
• Worry about the "perfection" of the logic during post-attack discussion and results of the death

Where exactly have I varied from that? For sure, my reckless charge(s) in this game has been nothing short of disastrous thus far. But for once, I feel it appropriate to jump on the bandwagon. It's Day One. I let Lander's tone get to my head and took my attack too far--for better or worse I don't regret it. Apologized in case my behavior caused him any actual grief (given he had multiple posts of seeming somewhat exasperated with my behavior, it's not a stretch to imagine I might have bothered him as a person instead of a player). And then came to find myself under attack based off a bad assumption with good logic, and a good assumption with bad logic. A few posts later, here we are, with the only possible deviations being that I apologized for my behavior and my attacks are meeting less success in the eyes of others. For the first, I hardly feel it applicable. For the second, yes, I blame the strain of putting forth constant effort to get results. You can take it as scummy, be my guest. Once again, I'll take it for knowing it to be the genuine case.

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Goten is dead!

Day 1 has ended, to my tally, without a lynch.

Funny, I don't recall reading on the bottle that Super Soap had a delayed effect. They always showed them zooming right along in the commercials, happily eating scum. Ah well, let it sit overnight I guess.

Day 2 has arrived.

Funny, the bathtub looks exactly the same as before. I thought one was supposed to let this stuff sit overnight, but I'd think something would happen. Ah well.

Whoa. Mafia forgot to send hit list PM in?

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If there is a doctor: Congrats maybe? Depends on if Monk shows successful protections.
If there is a roleblocker: Equal congrats? 'tis possible you blocked a mafia.
If it was a lazy mafia: Again? Come on, if this is the case it's happened twice in four games. I'm all for people still being alive, but the game actually has to be played.

If it was one of the first two, it's up to the role-holder if they want to reveal or not who they targeted. It's definitely worth keeping in mind, though, that your target may be convicted / cleared during a crucial moment.

If it was the third, I'm prone to believe we've got another Inactive mafia / Godfather on our hands. Which kinda sucks if it's true, since there are enough power players around this game that duking it out with big posts was a goal set for this game.

I suppose there is a fourth option of "Let's not send in a kill at all", which isn't unheard of. That kind of approach would involve a ton of Wine In Front Of Me discussion, though, and I don't see that being done by any veterans.

To be honest, given the above points, I actually feel like pursuing a previous target, and my most recent one.
Market Man6. Every post you've made has been little help to the village, and as notoriously "on the fence" as possible. Two greetings, a complaint about a song, understandable. Day one, yada yada.
"I don't like day one lynches, they're rarely justified"? A little less understandable. Lynches require thought, from both villagers grasping at scumtells and mafia trying to play the opportunists. I'd call that stalling, myself.
Your next two posts after that are even more fishy. Neighbors was Neighbors and this game is this game. What happened between Scar and Godders happened, it's for them to deal with, and if something is to be gained out of either of them pursuing it beyond a post, it's the fact that it kept getting brought up by Godders to get at Scar's goat. Instead, your post is one of simply stating the obvious, people play to win. Posting without actual content generation.
Then the last post you made. "Hey look, guys, the votes are divided. Here's a list." And you don't offer any kind of clue where to actually vote, not even a finger lifted to suggest who to look into Day Two.

You're on the fence, not contributing, okay with spread votes, and showed no signs of wanting to actually try to say who you think is villager or mafia. Nothing about this behavior works for me.

(Also, as I read your post after trying to preview mine: It's kind of funny that you limit your ideas to "forgetful mafia" alone.)

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Goten is dead!

Morning.

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There are 10 types of people in the world, the ones that understand binary, and the ones that don't.

Thanks Lou for the help with the avatar.

And given my point/s from yesterday:

Market Man6

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