Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins

Spirographed · **Posted:** July 11th, 2016, 9:29 pm

A fake claim for what reason, though? How would doing something so suspicious benefit a mafioso so early in the game?

Topsummoner · **Posted:** July 11th, 2016, 9:47 pm

Spirographed wrote:

A fake claim for what reason, though? How would doing something so suspicious benefit a mafioso so early in the game?

Capitalizing on the heat on me to get a lynch, but since he didn't actually use an investigation on me, he'll be able to handwave it later as a mistake and make up some more bullshit? Not to mention confuse the doctor into wasting their protection on him. Also what he has claimed doesn't match what we know about mafia roles and this game's setup, as I pointed out here:

Topsummoner wrote:

Pyro3000 wrote:

That being said, I would like to point out that there is a villager capable of killing at night. A Jack of All Trades. I will keep their name to myself to avoid them being targeted at night. And because I managed to find that person last night, I feel comfortable revealing my role as detective. I just ask that they protect me at night since I am obviously a high value target now.

In what world does the detective learn the role of the person they investigate? It has always been alignment they learn; Village, Mafia or Neutral/Third Party.

Learning the role is a different role entirely, the most common variant of which is the Stalker, a mafia-aligned role. Not to mention Jack basically stated in the flavor text of the intro that there is a Godfather in this game, which is a mafia-aligned role which appears innocent when investigated. What good would a Godfather be in a game with a detective who learns the role name? That doesn't make any sense. So I don't buy this claim for a second, especially since it comes unsolicited and with the third vote on a train against me. Pyro3000

I'm not going to deny there's a possibility he's not lying, but I highly doubt it, and that doesn't make his case against me make any more sense.

Kikori · **Posted:** July 11th, 2016, 10:37 pm

The entirety of his post screams "misdirection" to the level of continuing day one humor.

Also. Oh boy, someone's suspicious of me. What's new? I sure hope the Detective didn't waste a day-one investigation on me, because Fuzzy Bunny

yeah I can finally rest easy knowing I can't be framed, so I can't come up Mafia for once. Full batshit insane mode can finally resume for the first time in quite a while.

Seriously, Top, we both know there's little to nothing against you. Day one shenanigans are bullshit when it comes to generating proper activity, unless you get legit close to or achieve an actual lynch. The most you can do is metagame about people fake-claiming their roles early just to play the day-one irony card later when it comes up, and that's a pretty poor way to approach it. However.
Fact: You and Sparky had an exchange day one.
Fact: Sparky's now a confirmed villager because there's no way an unconfirmed JoaT attacked a doctor-protected villager AND the Mafia missed a chance to kill someone.
Likelihood: Your involvement is either a chance for Mafia to misdirect people early, or you're actually guilty and on an uncommonly early defensive.
Question: How the hell do you get pressure on someone to see what they do when the odds are starting to stack against them?
Answer: My vote stands.
And I stand by my perspective that I remember very few of the people you mentioned as being the more common night one kill victims. Investigate victims, perhaps. Not kill.

Kikori · **Posted:** July 11th, 2016, 10:44 pm

A few people wrote:

Jack of All Trades

And just to clarify my stance on this bit, I think the lack of confirmation in one in the entry post means there isn't one. I wouldn't rely on one to appear, and don't intend to take a claim of it seriously unless it's proven.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** July 11th, 2016, 10:48 pm

Kikori wrote:

The entirety of his post screams "misdirection" to the level of continuing day one humor.

Hey, you asked me to call you insane!

Quote:

Fact: You and Sparky had an exchange day one.

Sparky voted for me as an obvious day one joke, and I didn't even acknowledge it. I actually forgot it happened until Pyro pointed out, incorrectly I might add:

Pyro3000 wrote:

Sparky was the only one to vote for Top and suddenly Sparky was attacked at night.

Lander also voted for me before that, also in an obvious joking manner.

Quote:

Fact: Sparky's now a confirmed villager because there's no way an unconfirmed JoaT attacked a doctor-protected villager AND the Mafia missed a chance to kill someone.

Yep, this kind of goes without saying. The situation you're dismissing in this line also makes so little sense there's no point in even bringing it up.

Quote:

Likelihood: Your involvement is either a chance for Mafia to misdirect people early, or you're actually guilty and on an uncommonly early defensive.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly how Sparky getting attacked implicates me in the slightest. I asked the man himself about it but now I'm a little sweaty because there's three votes on me and I'm worried somebody might do something stupid. It'd be far worse if I wasn't defending myself, especially since this "case" that has cropped up about me is the best source of information in this game right now.

Quote:

And I stand by my perspective that I remember very few of the people you mentioned as being the more common night one kill victims. Investigate victims, perhaps. Not kill.

I'm not going to quote specific examples because Jack warned against using meta knowledge in the first post, just know that your perspective is demonstrably wrong and you should reconsider it.

Kikori wrote:

A few people wrote:

Jack of All Trades

And just to clarify my stance on this bit, I think the lack of confirmation in one in the entry post means there isn't one. I wouldn't rely on one to appear, and don't intend to take a claim of it seriously unless it's proven.

There was no mention of a doctor either but we know one (or a JoaT) is running around.

Zilla · **Posted:** July 11th, 2016, 10:53 pm

Topsummoner wrote:

Quote:

That being said, I would like to point out that there is a villager capable of killing at night. A Jack of All Trades. I will keep their name to myself to avoid them being targeted at night. And because I managed to find that person last night, I feel comfortable revealing my role as detective. I just ask that they protect me at night since I am obviously a high value target now.

In what world does the detective learn the role of the person they investigate? It has always been alignment they learn; Village, Mafia or Neutral/Third Party.

Learning the role is a different role entirely, the most common variant of which is the Stalker, a mafia-aligned role. Not to mention Jack basically stated in the flavor text of the intro that there is a Godfather in this game, which is a mafia-aligned role which appears innocent when investigated. What good would a Godfather be in a game with a detective who learns the role name? That doesn't make any sense.

He does have a point here. I've never heard of a Detective being able to know the role of a person.

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 4:07 am

It's my belief that there is a Jack of All Trades and a doctor.

I wasn't aware Jack of All Trades could only protect once. It's been years since I've played. The only information I got was their specialty and the three actions they could take. I wasn't told the limitations of them. Granted, maybe this time there aren't any. Jack likely assumed I wouldn't actually play and buffed it up.

In fact, Jack likely made this game with a large villager advantage to make up for knowing a lot of players might not stay active because they rarely come here anymore.

My point still stands. Top is the most expendable person.

SparkyAMS · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 5:13 am

You know what? You make some good points Top. (Unvote Topsummoner) Pyro3000.

And yes my vote for you was just a "I vote for you, I get stated" thing. Ouch.

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 5:49 am

Zilla wrote:

Topsummoner wrote:

Quote:

That being said, I would like to point out that there is a villager capable of killing at night. A Jack of All Trades. I will keep their name to myself to avoid them being targeted at night. And because I managed to find that person last night, I feel comfortable revealing my role as detective. I just ask that they protect me at night since I am obviously a high value target now.

In what world does the detective learn the role of the person they investigate? It has always been alignment they learn; Village, Mafia or Neutral/Third Party.

Learning the role is a different role entirely, the most common variant of which is the Stalker, a mafia-aligned role. Not to mention Jack basically stated in the flavor text of the intro that there is a Godfather in this game, which is a mafia-aligned role which appears innocent when investigated. What good would a Godfather be in a game with a detective who learns the role name? That doesn't make any sense.

He does have a point here. I've never heard of a Detective being able to know the role of a person.

I assure you, I have been told exactly who the Jack of All Trades is.

Why would I do a false claim and say I found a special role and won't name them? What other reason than to give the villagers leverage by letting them know there is an asset in this game that they can use to their leverage AND not specifically name the person to avoid them being a target.

I only go for Top because he isn't the Jack of all Trades, and likely isn't the doctor. He's the least risky kill for us to take right now, but the odds of us actually getting a kill with inactive players is slim.

Zilla · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 6:26 am

But why would Jackstick completely go against the rules and give unheard of special abilities to roles especially when so many of us have not played in a long time? That would be a pretty crappy move on his part. He said he wanted to make this a very basic game to start.

I'm voting Pyro.

If I'm wrong, I blame Jack.

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 7:12 am

Yeah I've never seen a role that combines the watcher/stalker and detective in one. Obviously it's possible but that would be very far from vanilla and frankly OP.

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 7:48 am

4/8 votes are on me.

Aragorn holds suspicion of me but isn't voting for me.

I'll take that to assume he's a villager and trying to be careful in case my claim is true. It would be too easy to bandwagon on me right now to close the kill after all.

We likely have what? 3 mafia, maybe 4?

If it's four and no mafia have voted for me yet, I'm as good as dead unless I am mafia.

On the other hand if some mafia have voted for me, I should be perfectly safe if the villagers are truly careful.

But I firmly believe that Top is mafia at this point, and that Sighence may be as well. Though, with Sighence it's only because of his vote for me and the fact that I'm not seeing a swarm of votes coming my way to try to finish me off.

SparkyAMS · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 8:06 am

I'm on my phone because of vacation, so it keeps autocorrecting. Unvote becomes invite for some reason, and I missed that stabbed became stated. So if my comments don't make sense sometimes that's why.

Sighence · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 10:13 am

The worst part of this is that there's no way to use the claimed found joat to prove Pyro's role. The mafia can either cover for the actions needed or, if Pyro's telling the truth, kill him, and we'd have a near-useless outed joat to show for it.

Oh, and I too am phone-browsing, so apologies if this has been mentioned, but why oh why would a detective out himself for a joat?

Frank 4.0.1 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 11:38 am

Pyro3000 wrote:

We likely have what? 3 mafia, maybe 4? If it's four and no mafia have voted for me yet, I'm as good as dead unless I am mafia.

Honest to god I was right up with you until this point. This is just too scummy for me. Just the way this is worded like you're convinced you're dead and the mafia will undoubtedly come to hammer you... I don't buy that. This doesn't "look" like a detective defense... It looks like a mafia defense trying to deflect some blame on the people that come later to hammer you. Chop me into that suspicious circle then, Pyro 3000.

Pyro 3000 wrote:

Why would I do a false claim...

That really is a head-scratcher. One I can't make a lick of sense out of. It doesn't make any sense for you to fake role claim being the detective considering the real one could counter-claim and get you hammered. However, it doesn't make sense for you to claim so early in the game with literally no information worth sharing. What does knowing there is a jack of all trades do for us? It doesn't give us any day information unless we were about to lynch him. Considering that the only other person drawing some heat at the moment is Topsummoner, the guy you're proposing we kill, that cannot be the case.

Pyro 3000 wrote:

What other reason than to give the villagers leverage by letting them know there is an asset in this game that they can use to their leverage AND not specifically name the person to avoid them being a target.

Information here is a two-way street. Siggy has sort of pointed this out already... If there is a GOAT running around, everyone now knows about it. If what you're saying is true, then whatever is gained by the village of a role in the shadows that can act, the mafia now knows to be more careful about...

It's one hell of an opportunity cost being paid (the GOAT being in the shadows) for what? For the rest of the village to know he was there? What do we do with that information other then wish him luck? Nothing about this makes any sense either... I don't think we gain anything from the information you've provided us. I don't buy the story then.

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 11:52 am

Alright, that's a lot of votes my way so I don't have much choice here.

Zilla is the Jack of All Trades. She can back up my claim.

I hate to do this, but I would rather risk us both by night than lose a known villager at day.

With this she doesn't have to waste her investigationon me tonight, either.

But I do hope that the doctor successfully chooses which one of us to save if her protect really is a one time action. I would hate to waste it this early if it can be avoided.

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 12:05 pm

That all being said, my strongest suspicions are on Top, Sig, and Frank for being so quick to fire on a person with a detective claim.

Even if I was lying, that's a very risky move to make. You three will be my next investigations if I should survive the day.

After all, if the mafia haven't voted for me yet, they'll certainly go for the kill now. If they don't then they either want to avoid suspicion, or they've already added to my count.

Frank 4.0.1 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 12:24 pm

What little we "gained" from your role call is just given away... That should show you what a poor decision that was to make in the first place. My vote stands pending Zilla's post.

Pyro3000 · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 12:44 pm

Keep your vote where it is.

This is the exact situation that we need to close the gap quickly.

I will absolve the three I have pointed out with each passing day. Meanwhile, we can lynch the inactives on any day that we have no one suspicious to act on.

After all, if they're truly inactive then Jack should be mod killing them. So they could just be hiding out.

Up to everyone else.

Sighence · **Posted:** July 12th, 2016, 1:42 pm

I groaned irl just now. If you survive - I'm not unvoting today, as her substantiation proves only that you're on the same side, and not ours - at least use a random number generator to pick from everyone.

Mafia 2016 | Day 5 | Communion Wine | Mafia Wins

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