It was dedicated to figuring out the relationship between Paidea (the prime suspect of the day) and Pyro (the first confirmed Mafia). You've had good interactions with others, but not anything that directly links or separates the two beyond me being called out for not going up against you.

Sighence's lack of early presence is understandable with no Internet, but... the fact that it was one-and-done with no vote on day two is unlike him, and a big reason he's top of my list in red.
I've been there more than once where I've totally misread people and been in Paidea's shoes, so it's purely out of empathy that I'm not pushing for more pressure on him today. From the looks of it, he's not getting much support thus far. It'll probably be up to that soft roleclaim of his to save him, if anything. Remember, he also claimed to believe you Villager early day two for meta reasons. It's been in the open for some time... and Pyro stated a lack of belief that Paidea had a night action. Let's take it with a grain of salt until he comes out with it.

It's unfortunately hard to gauge how legit anything about that vote was. Lander mis-counted, Paidea either legit or acted like he mis-counted when turning more attention to Sparky... I still feel like that vote and the reaction was more staged than anything. Others can call it scummy, legit, whatever, but my word will probably stay "staged" for that one. That sadly doesn't make sense since I'm still entertaining the thought that Paidea's been set up, but the more I look at it the less I find myself believing it.

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Goten is dead!

@Kikori,
I legitimately didn't see Aragorn's vote, like Lander. That whole page was absorbed by the Kikori vs. Pyro argument with some Sparky splashed in.


Sighence is logically the most suspicious player left, FMPOV. Sparky's fake hammer on Pyro is suspicious, along with the unexplained vote for You yesterday.
However, I am paranoid of You, Frank, and Aragorn for <reasons>. Thr is actually my top town read right now.

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@Sparky,

That's not how suspicion works. That's not how any of this works! Many people were suspicious of you for varying, inter-related reasons. Instead of replying to their concerns you just OMGUS'd them either with votes or FoSs. I agree with your current vote, at least.

---

@Frank, you never addressed this post:

So I'm reposting it for attention.


Especially since Sparky's vote didn't count towards said successful lynch.


You're comparing apples and kumquats. The Aragorn and Pyro trains are so drastically unlike that to interpret my difference in behavior between them is nonsensical. Aragorn was a novel D1 bandwagon that fizzled out almost as quickly as it gathered steam. Pyro was a slow-moving locomotive that pulled along train-cars as an argumentative case was made by Kikori and many points of contention by the opposite party were made. To suggest that the same "information" was at stake is unfair if used as a basis for reading my alignment.


That no one could have known would be successful unless they were bussing. I was actively trying to get people to unvote Pyro because I believed he was town.


You will have to forgive me for not spilling the beans yet, but I would like Aragorn, Sighence, and Thr to post first.

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Hi.

It seems the vast majority of the argument against me has to do with my activity pattern.

Firstly, I'd suggest that everyone's calibration was thrown a bit off by last game.

Secondly, I also kinda got married over the weekend. Posting proof smacks of flirting heavily with the 'no outside evidence' rule, and my flirting days are behind me, so y'all are just going to have to deal. Honeymoon travel eats up the last 12 hours of this day and the next night phase but otherwise I should be back on.

Paid's actively becoming anti-information. I'm not a lot better by virtue of giving a lack of information recently, but I'm clearly not the only one seeing the difference. If Spiro, whose early posts are functionally swappable with Paid's style, wound up being vanilla, I'm leaning away from a vote on him right now, but Pyro aping my posts and turning up mafia doesn't make that my most confident assertion.

Sparky, meanwhile, has a day and a half of suspicion on him and we collectively have let it go, up to and including outright admitting to giving him a pass because he's newer. It's bad for the town, and it's bad for him to learn, regardless of his role.

I'm.
not.
new.

This is like game 12 for me, I'm just positing more this time through. That's really all it is.

@Paidea: "That's not how suspicion works. That's not how any of this works!"

Yes. Yes it is.

I'm playing differently than normal, but only in the sense that I'm posting more than normal. Normally the only post that I make are to directly defend myself from straight out mafia lies. I'm choosing to post at other times than that this time around, and so people are getting to see how I am.

I've literally never been mafia in all of this time, and people like Kik know this, and so the way I've played in the past and now has always been as a villager. therefore if I'm playing differently than I must be mafia this time.

But from my stand point I'm the same me as normal, I've just chosen to talk more. So seeing Kik be suspicious of me looked from my standpoint as different than what I'm use to from him, and therefore suspicious as well.

But like I said, I get his view of me now, and don't see him as mafia. However you are still on my list.

If you can't see what I'm getting at then I can't help you.

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JIMMY IMAGE FOR PRESIDENT!

It's not about the "information," it's about your motivation. What motivated you to get behind the Aragorn lynch with a serious vote. What motivated you to try and obstruct the Pyro lynch. Our situation had not changed from Day 1 to Day 2 other than losing Topsummoner. We're staring at the same murky weeds of uncertainty... If lynching Aragorn provided ANY useful information at all then surely the lynch on Pyro would provide some as well, right?

You're right in the sense the information was not the same in both lynches. We had a damn good reason to lynch Pyro. There was a lot of abnormal stuff happening with him. A Pyro lynch means we learn something. In a world where we successfully lynch Aragorn, what do we learn from that other than his alignment? If he flips mafia we learn something... But we don't if he is a villager. Conversely, in a world where we lynch Pyro last night and he flips villager... We learn we probably should not trust Kikori, Frank, or Thr.

And this is really why I don't understand your objection at all. We stood to learn more from the day 2 lynch than we did from our day 1 lynch. If whatever we stood to learn day one was sufficient enough for you to support it than I do not see why you would object to greater information on day 2 for the same risk. I do not see an angle where anyone who supported the day one lynch on Aragorn would not support the day 2 lynch on Pyro, unless they have an ulterior motive or more information.



Did you actively believe Aragorn was mafia or were you just willing to chance it with him? If that, why weren't you willing to chance it with Pyro? This is my problem... I don't see how you had this conclusion that Pyro was definitively town and you construct a notable defense for him... But you were willing to lynch Aragorn. I can't square away the pieces in my head here. There is something here that explains this... I suppose it's going to be the revelation you're promising us.



By your own words you conclude we produced "cases" independently... So that is somehow proof that we have some connection? I don't get it. What do you know that we don't know?



I knew Aragorn had voted. Hence the whole my vote was 4 and Sparky was (supposed to be) the hammer. Though, when the posts start getting monolithic it's not hard to imagine a scanning eye glances right over a bolded name in a field of text. Speculating either way feels like it's a level too deep...

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Signature made by: Chicken.
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It's almost like incomplete things skew things...

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JIMMY IMAGE FOR PRESIDENT!

Nobody has stuck a vote on me so I'm going to preemptively claim, because I have a good bit of information. I'm the Watcher.

1. I know who has the Key given by Top. I get this sickening feeling that the Key might be worthless for <reasons>.
2. <Redacted> is letting on way less than they actually know, and it's making me paranoid.
3. If there is only 1 mafia remaining, then <classified> is "clear."
4. If I assume everyone I've seen to be aligned with the Village, then the Mafia must have some pretty useful power.

It's Day 3 and the Village is in a good spot to coordinate. I am requesting that anyone else who is currently withholding information come forward.

Everybody involved in my Night reports (besides Top, whether Visitor or Visitee) voted for Pyro. Obviously last Night's report came after his lynch but there is some overlap. Pyro didn't suspect I have a Night ability, despite me dropping breadcrumbs left and right. These are the main reasons why I was opposed to the Pyro lynch.

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I get you're worried about me but you've got to decide really quick if you can trust me.

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Sounds like you're trying to be as incredibly vague as possible despite that we are in a position of needing more information to decide whether or not we can actively trust you. The irony here is that, as it stands, those of us who are about on the same page know who we feel we can and can't trust, and everyone's lists of suspects all seem to be eerily similar.

I can understand hoping to lure people into making mistakes of their own (lack of) night actions, but YOU'RE the one with something to prove here. Enough with this shady tagging of names; you come out with what you have and help us coordinate. Now that you've finally claimed, you should logically be the Mafia's kill target for the night. Fat lot of good it'll do us to know <redacted> and <classified> are somewhere on your list, right? Maybe we'll cross our fingers and hope <somebody> comes out with their <reasons>. Lot of good we'll get from that. Get your spine back in order, man up, and help us first. The specifics of who or what you can watch at night and the NAMES of who you've seen would be nice.

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Goten is dead!

Let me take a few stabs at things to get that ball rolling, though. I'm going to assume your version of the Watcher watches one single person's house on any given night to enter it, as per EpicMafia's description (same as what I used to examine Topsummoner's role).

It's only been two night phases. Night one, you could have only managed to watch the person who Topsummoner gave their key to. What gets me is, how do you suspect the key may be worthless? That would involve something as insanely specific as knowing the recipient has a night role, and didn't use it Night Two in lieu of protecting themselves.

Good to know. Why should that name be withheld? And how do you know they know more than they let on?

How could you know this? The Watcher, in the case of this argument, watches to see who has visited any specific house. What combination of watched players and visitors could lead to knowing someone could be 100% clear?
For all this paranoia, are you afraid of telling us who you saw and where they place on the 1-2-3-4 chart because it directly conflicts with out list of suspects?

Alright, then. If you decide to withhold absolutely everything else, at least tell us HOW MANY of those who voted for Pyro have been watched. I'm expecting far more than just an answer to this, given your knowledge stands to help the Village far more than the Mafia, though... and the rolefishing you're asking us to walk into helps the Mafia more than the Village.

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Goten is dead!

Let's answer this one in order of line breaks, then...
>What is with this obsession of regarding peoples' activity before their behaviors? The last person who obsessed over it and tried to force it out as a big point of defense for themselves turned out to be Mafia, remember?
>The hell if last game skewed anything for us, if anything it was a boon. It's offered a much better look into how people perform without metagame knowledge hindering their attempts at making arguments and cooperation between village and mafia.
>Congrats on the marriage. I'll still never understand why people sign up for team games when they know their presence will be limited by such plans, but marriage is a pretty big something and I wish you the best with it. That said, for the times you've been on since Day Two to present, there's been plenty more content with which you of all Mafia veterans should've been able to poke holes in and bring up insightful questions about others' opinions and behaviors.
>Have you seen peoples' order of suspicion? You, Paidea, and Sparky are still high up on everyone's lists (excluding each of you individually), but the focus has shifted to the interactions Pyro has had with everyone, ESPECIALLY Paidea due to their unwillingness to conflict with or vote for each other.

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Goten is dead!

Paid, what did you mean by this? The Frank and Kikori link re the Pyro lynch? I'm not really seeing that as a genuine connection. It's possibly there's some mirroring going on by say Sparky to appear town? I don't think it's a convincing argument though.

Seeing as mock mafiality charts are all the rage here's mine:

Aragorn, Kikori, Thr, Sig, Paid, Sparky, Frank

At this point I actually think Frank is mafia and Kikori is town (which obviously doesn't align with your theories, Paid). Everyone else I don't have a strong read on. I'm seeing some validity in Kikori's argument that Pyro and Paid were deliberately distancing themselves from each other but after your claim I'm reserving judgement until we know more. For now my vote would be on [b]Frank[b] (that flipflop vote stil doesn't sit right with me, sorry).

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|Items and Monster Database Staff|Villager Writer|Guide Writer|
|Legend|
Gamestar is my twin

Hidden: 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oops, that should have been Frank

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|Items and Monster Database Staff|Villager Writer|Guide Writer|
|Legend|
Gamestar is my twin

Hidden: 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gonna ask a few things of you, Aragorn.

1.) What's got Sighence dead center in your chart, compared to many of us giving him a Mafia lean?
2.) Will you ever turn your BBcode on entirely? :p
3.) Think you could explain a little more why Frank's refusal to stick to a faulty lynch is so suspicious? It's a lynch that had been logically debunked by one since-confirmed-villager (Top) and avoided altogether by another since-confirmed-villager (Spiro), and also avoided until day's end by the person-not-you you feel strongest to be a villager (Me). To stick with that one single suspicion for so long has to stem from something more than one single gut feeling among eight pages of is... confusing, at the least.

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Goten is dead!

So we have roughly 24 hours to find a lynch tonight. That may prove to be difficult considering time zones but the day ends at ~1 AM Wednesday EST. This will be around the time we had the most activity yesterday but we're pressing for activity on a weekday over a weekend. Kind of difficult but not impossible.


Damn you can't just let that go... Like I said before once I realized it was a SRS lynch and not people just having some fun razzing on you I backed off.

I do really want to try and move forward here... I don't know if Paidea is just being super paranoid or just filibustering... Either way, it's not good for the town. Paidea and Siggy are both solid choices for a lynch. We may have a bit "safer" of a lynch going with Siggy to try and figure out what the hell is Paidea's up to... Though his brazen secrecy does not sit well with me either.

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The behavior - which seems to somewhat revolve around failing to vote for Pyro (which doing anyway might've been called suspicious depending on timing, as we've seen) - is a result of my relative inactivity. Trying to use my relative inactivity is a mistake specifically in my case as I was pressed up against the wall all game. Signing up was a calculated call. The reality isn't quite what I was hoping, sure, but I'm not about to drop the game.

All that aside, orders of suspicion are speculative and subjective. I appreciate the attempt at information-giving it provides, though. As for me, my vote is a pretty obvious indicator of where I stand, and I'm rarely above mentioning other suspects. You'll notice that I'm currently suspicious of two of the three you listed. My reasons may sometimes be different than others, sure, but exactly what's that matter? Would you rather I parrot someone else?

So things have finally come full circle. Frank is positively mafia. The case starts after I finish replying to Kikori's questions.


Here Frank admits to being <Redacted>. Glad we got that out of the way. Keep this in mind.


...and it worked. The way Frank has been playing and responded, there is no way he can be coming from a Villager's mindset. <Classified> is remaining that way because I'm pretty sure they're more valuable than me alive. I can watch anyone. Some of the names are on their way, keep reading.


Since Frank has admitted to being <redacted>, and I said that there was a Frank-Kikori connection on Day 2, it only takes a little bit of shifting the puzzle pieces around to determine that YOU have the Key. The Key is worthless because either A) you are Mafia, so anything you do with the Key will be WIFOM-related and can only hurt the Town or leave it neutral or B) you are a Villager, but obviously not high up on the Mafia's hit-list. You led the charge against Pyro and you're still alive, and now that I've claimed I might be the Mafia's next kill. I am honestly surprised that you didn't put these clues together yourself.


I'm not sure how you can ask this question immediately after Frank admits to being <redacted>. But more on this later.


If there is one Mafia remaining and I see Player A visit Player B, and Player C dies, that means that Player A cannot have committed the kill.


Somewhat. The current theory is that Pyro was bussed by at the very least 1, if not 2 Mafia.


3/5 of the voters on Pyro's lynch have been part of my reports.


Except that that is exactly my prevailing theory now. Frank bussed Pyro.

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Frank KNOWS I saw him visit Kikori and is STILL acting oblivious to knowing anything about a "Frank-Kikori" connection. I first brought it up here, where it was denied by Kikori and ignored by Frank. Then after I reposted it, this was Frank's response:

Frank continues to feign ignorance.

And here, Frank is trying to mount suspicion on me after I claimed Watcher and despite knowing that I saw him visit Kikori. There is no way that townie!Frank reacts like this and doesn't try to move forward with me.

This is the nail in the coffin for me.

Let's recap:
- I drop breadcrumbs left and right.
- Frank acknowledges said crumb but rejects and does not play party to the information (three separate times).
- Frank acts as though my claim is not legit and I'm still worthy of a lynch.

That is not a Villager perspective. Frank is playing highly deceptively. One more thing, Frank's vote for Pyro yesterDay:


This reads like a set-up to bus. Perhaps Pyro unvoted specifically so Frank could have a "solid" reason to vote him. The "you have accepted your fate" line seems VERY orchestrated considering Frank's vote was only third in the train. It would seem more authentic if Frank were the hammer, or even the 4th vote. But at that point in time, Pyro's fate was not yet sealed... unless Frank and Pyro had a plan to bus all along.

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This is what I've been waiting on...?

OK, fine...

I am the Jack of All Trades. I visited Kikori night one to investigate him. I visited him again night 2 but was unable to protect him. I hope this is because Kikori used his key to protect himself... though there is some possibility there is a role blocker out there which is why I wasn't completely stoked to come forward. Oh well, c'est la vie.

I gave your story credence because the role you claimed to have sounded town. I haven't been convinced by your play that you are town. You have some ability to see people's actions, this is certain. However, what really isn't certain is who you're putting your actions to use for. Anyone who pulled the stunt you pulled day two would have been killed on the spot... I regret allowing this circus to come forward. Either you're town and you've been missing reads all game or you're mafia trying to sneak a free town kill at this point. I know which one I'm betting on.

Paidea

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You gave my story credence? Show me. By pretending like you didn't have the slightest clue what I was talking about? By suggesting I was a good lynch target?

If I wasn't putting my actions to use for the town why would I breadcrumb my N1 results in case I died? If I was Mafia why would I kill Spiro instead of you, who I knew would be a PR?

Do you have anything to say in defense towards my other points?

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