Hmm. Ok. Unvote
Nope! It was intentional, though I agree it did appear that way though.
Not shaken; still convinced you are Mafia. Kikori
Kind of confused to hear this, especially from you. Typically people appear to screw around on Day 1, the Mafia kills someone Night 1, and then the game begins. But in this game the Doctor saved Market Night 1, meaning that the Village is in the exact same situation today (Day 3) as it would usually be on Day 2. Why you suddenly think it's all-important that we lynch someone today makes as much sense as someone saying it's all over if we don't lynch a Mafia on Day 2.
I think you're confusing "changes his mind" with "tactics".

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No, I don't think I phrased it very well, Henry answered a related but different question. My question is, WHY is Sayaka acting so, assuming he is town. Both of you took the position that his reason for accusing without reason was to generate more discussion and activity. However, I asked the same question, and he stated that was not his purpose, and he went so far as to state that he beleives that approach spoils the information it gathers. So then my question is this: If not for that reason, then WHY is Sayaka accusing without reason, assuming he is town?


Well, you are defending yourself, and have been, and this isn't nothing. You responded with quick defense to that question not even aimed at you, and are trying to justify it by saying you name was in the same line. So do you then admit to being hypersenitive, or overeager to defend yourself, both of which are habits of Mafia and not town?




At least you're consistent

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Top: You didn't have to vote back for him. There was content from new names for the day to respond to. When the focus was on Jaron and the risk of it became clear he might be lynched, you left. With MANY people bringing up points to, and about him, you remained silent. "Important voices" made themselves heard, and you left it at your vote for me.
When the only other person in a day with a vote on me was already under fire for suspicion, you tried to take away momentum against Sayaka and left it at that. For believing him not a Mafia, you were quite silent about it for the remainder of the day. For wanting me dead, you were quite silent about it for the remainder of the day. So yes, Top, fluff vote. Vote and run. I do not regret my choice of words.

So my biggest problem is that you, for undoubtedly having this topic bookmarked and not saying anything for twenty four hours despite the vast amount of content you had to work with, both between pressuring me and relieving it on Sayaka.

As per your couple of paragraphs. It doesn't really add up to say his death's value would depend on how people react to his strategy when all three people he believed were Mafia did indeed respond. The WIFOM doesn't cancel itself out when all parties involve have made their cases. Maybe if he died immediately after voicing his suspicions, but needless to say, that didn't happen. And we all know no Mafia ever tries to generate information that the other Mafia can use to their advantage, no sir. All information incriminates other Mafia members.


If a scientist tells someone his hypothesis and that it was a failure despite his effort, is he defending his efforts or simply reporting the situation? Every single person here is apparently saying the former.
"Kikori sees his name and responds." This is not new news. You can call it hypersensitive if you want--it's certainly not worrying about defending myself from nothing--whereas I call it making sure people know what's what about me and what I do. So yes, the words "Kikori" and "serious" were a good lead-in for reporting my own serious and failed attempt at trying to start something. I still personally can not see the big deal with this one compared to some of the other things people are glaring at me for.

And yes. At least Sayaka is consistent.

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I never said all information incriminates Mafia members. I said Jaron's play generated information, period. Before that there was nothing at all. The mafia have a nightkill, but the village CANNOT win without information. Ergo, any information and discussion is a net gain for the town. This is why Jaron's play on Day 2 would make no sense as a mafia.

That's all you're getting from me tonight, 2 AM....

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Well at a first glance, Sayaka could be doing this to see how we react to being accused of Mafia, we all have our different ways of responding, some of us respond differently as a mafia member, than as a village member. It could also be for future games, he can see how i react as a villager now, and if in future games i act the same, i'm a villager, otherwise i'm Mafia.

Although the 3 people (Me, Kikori and Dr Henry) may not be Mafia members, peoples reactions to him, and about us 3, could give certain Mafia tells, and lead to a Mafia lynch.

So while he might not neccessarily be looking for information about the 3 chosen, i do believe he is looking for information about peoples reactions to us 3 being fingered as Mafia members. Because Villagers only do things to generate activity to gather information, i can't think of another reason for his actions. I also believe that while he may not seriously have thought (me, Dr Henry and Kikori) were Mafia members, i do now believe that he does think that Kikori is actually a Mafia member.

And Sayaka's constantly changing of votes is just to gauge more reactions, to get more tells towards someones alignment, while still believing Kikori is Mafia.

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The answer is that mafia members want to look like they are town, and that sometimes they will go to extreme measures to do so. Combine the above oversight with the fact that the rest of your post, the lengthiest thus far, is nothing but pointing out the obvious. You know who points out the obvious? The mafia. You'd be getting my vote if there weren't bigger fish to fry.

Aside from that, I'm pleased there is so much activity. Generally we only have one large event that the game basically revolves around, such as one person's slip-up or accusation, a claim vs a counterclaim, etc.

But there are at least two issues here, the issue of Jaron and the issue of kikori.

I still stand by my post on day two about Jaron. He seems sketchy as hell, but as others have pointed out, he is being consistent. Consistency is probably the least likely trait for a mafioso to have. So although I may not be as suspicious of him as I was, I still think he is on a fool's errand, and until he reveals his reasoning (which likely won't be happening) I will treat him as a mafioso for reasons already stated. Sayaka

In terms of kikori, I have to say I generally have a hunch when he is mafia. He's painfully easy to spot as scum because frankly, he plays badly as scum. The thing of it is he generally gets investigated early on, so on only one occasion have I been able to see him lynched as scum, and that was more or less because he was tired of playing. Or did not want to be scum. Or something.

At any rate, I'm frankly not seeing the same thing/s top and others are seeing. The question I asked myself was, in terms of him defending himself from something that wasn't directed at him: why would a mafia member do that? If he were scum, he would have just ignored it, not shone a spotlight on it. That's the biggest flaw I see in Top's logic.

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It's not my job to defend Jaron for him. I had already stated my reasons why I don't think he's mafia, why should I have gone around and tried to explain his thought-process (which still makes no sense to me, for the record) to the other people speculating on him?

As for 'pressuring you', if I'm honest, most of suspicion for you is gut. I struggle to actually point out flaws in things you say just because of how ambiguously and verbosely you word everything, always. Other than what I said in the post I voted for you, and what others have pointed out which I would rather not parrot, I don't have much on you to 'pressure' you with.



But to effectively kickstart the game's discussion on the first few days? It doesn't feel right to me.



The answer is that mafia members want to look like they are town, and that sometimes they will go to extreme measures to do so.

...but in all seriousness, people make mistakes. Pretty much everything I could say to refute this point is what you've said to refute mine, ha.

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Oh, that's your question? Well my answer is: I do not know.

I really do not know why Sayaka would be acting the way he is right now if he is town. Perhaps his actions on Day Two could be explained away, but today he is just getting scummier in my eyes.

He calls it 'tactics', and yet keeps them to himself. Stand-alone villagers do not need tactics at the start of the game. A group of mafia do.

There seems to be Sayaka and Top against Lander and Kikori at the moment in terms of views (correct me if I am mistaken there). I am inclined to agree with Kikori at the moment, having played enough games with him to know his awkward playstyle. At present, I have not seen a mafia tell.

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All of this is using "Sayaka wants us to respond to stuff" as an excuse. I thought I made it clear that I already thought you guys were Mafia, and I just wanted to tell the rest of the players my opinion. I'm pretty sure one of my posts to PenguinGuy says as such.
I disagree with the use of your word "only".
You have quite silly beliefs!
(Really it was just because Riptide, Ex Rex and Paidea weren't posting enough. (They still aren't.))
[Dagoth Ur] What a fool you are.
[Dagoth Ur] I am a god!
[Dagoth Ur] You cannot kill a god!
[Dagoth Ur] What a grand and intoxicating innocence!
[Dagoth Ur] How can you BE so naive?
Dude he's playing badly now. And you totally just said the only time he's been lynched as Mafia was when he gave up. So is your basis of thinking he's not Mafia because he's not giving up?
Bull. You know what Kikori's difference is? Let's roleplay a little here and switch roles. Let's say you just claimed that I did some very scummy things but you're not going to reveal them. Let's say I'm a Villager. You know what my reply is going to be? "You tell me what they are and I'll counter them, because I think you're just making them up." (I'm not really making them up but if I were in their shoes that'd be my reaction.) Actually I would probably throw the whole "YOU CAN'T MAKE ACCUSATIONS LIKE THAT WITHOUT EVIDENCE. I ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE SOME?" line from Perfect Dark in there too, because how often do you actually get to use that line? It's an awesome line! But I digress.

My point is that's not what he did. Instead he started to compile a list of all the things he's done that he thinks are scummy. My guess is he was trying to retcon-cover his tracks. Now you can't use any of the things he mentioned in any of your arguments, because he can just be all "dude I already listed those on Day two where were you".

I'm pretty flattered you said I was being consistent though. I guess it came automatically, because [GLaDOS] We weren't even testing for that.

In any case, there are 14 hours left in Day 3. We should really convene on a lynch here. Let's make take place.

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem is it means so much less when you don't give a solid case why. The Godders train failed because people just haven't seen it. The 100% Kikori suspicion is failing because apparently only a few names can see it. You can't convince a jury without evidence, and holding yours back just to make this game's jury think doesn't help you get a lynch except that it apparently makes me seem "panicked" to Riptide about wanting you gone.

If votes are any measure, we both have had the same maximum number.
If the attitude of responses are any measure, even excluding the compliment you gave me, I've found points of scumminess that others have agreed with.
And if metagame is the measure (oh my god, I can't believe I'm actually referencing the metagame), yeah, even I notice how terrible I tend to play when I end up a Mafia member. I think the only time I actually had the ambition to pull a coup as Mafia was during Topsummoner's courtroom variant. I'D LIKE TO THINK THIS HERE CONSTITUTES EFFORT.



Well, you saw right through me. Yes, Sayaka, I totally intended to remove the validity of those points in Day Two by bringing them up.
... Really, though, you were close. More than anything, if they haven't been questioned by now, they fall under the same category as what Penguin has been questioning me for. "Nothing to me, despite being holyshit terrible" to others. So if they're valid, I personally don't see it, but thus far I've had no reason to think they're valid since only your vote (and partially Riptide's) have been influenced directly from said reasoning.
My comment when "retcon-cover"ing myself stands. Those are pretty much the only things I can literally guess would be "critical errors", which I think more people than just the person making them don't see as critical.

So what have we got for votes, here? Two for Top, three for Sayaka, five for me?
If it means getting closer to a lynch, I'll cave in and try to go for the almost-top rung in my aforementioned ladder. Sayaka.

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Goten is dead!

Kikori, because I hate no-lynch days.

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DAY THREE ENDS

There was quite the quarrel at our favorite vacation complex today. Shocked by the prospects of the mafia, the villagers demanded blood. But who's blood would they demand? They honed in on two popular names... While the argument lasted long into the day and even some hope shined that a supermajority would be reached... It was to no avail. Night snuck up on the deadlocked village and the entire community retreated into their homes... Hoping to see the sun rise once more.

NIGHT THREE GO.

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HENNER MONTH! AWESOME! HENNER IS AWESOME! HENNER RULES! I LUVS TEH HENNER!

NIGHT THREE ENDS

Another sleepless night in our village... Who would be the next victim of the mafia? Would the doctor save another poor soul in the night? Rolecall proved that Riptide was the missing villager this morning. As the village scampered over to his apartment they turn with disgust at the sight of which they see... Not only was Riptide dead, but he possessed such strange tools which until now no one seemed to remember him having. A hat, a pipe... For some reason he had a magnifying glass in his trench coat. This would be a tough blow for the village to absorb. Riptide, legendary detective, has investigated his last case.

Riptide, Detective, Dead night three.

DAY FOUR GO.

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I have to get to school right now, and once again I wish I could make a longer post with more insightful comments, but I will cut to the nitty gritty. Hopefully I will have some time tonight.

Anyway, I think Riptide probably investigated kikori. Found him guilty. As someone who usually follows others' coattails, he voted for kikori yesterday pretty early on. After Sayaka, I believe. He said that he "basically agreed with everything Sayaka was saying" (about kikori). Now, with some pretty prominent voices speaking out against Sayaka, I would be inclined to think that Riptide wouldn't place his faith in Sayaka's "accusation without evidence" argument without at least acknowledging others' points of views.

kikori is a hot target for the detective. I know that if I had been detective, I'd probably used have used it on kikori by night 3 (in this game, anyway... based on the back and forth between kikori and others). I think that Riptide found a guilty on kikori and used Sayaka's pressure (as discredited as it might be by others) as a mechanism to place a vote on kikori without trying to be too subliminal. Maybe someone in the mafia thinks like I do here and that's why Riptide is dead. Don't know, don't care.

Bottom line, dead detective's last vote was on kikori kid. Nuff said. By the way Riptide, if I'm right about all of this, it's usually smartest to roleclaim that you're cop when you have a guilty and the doctor is still alive. You out vital information and the doctor has a surefire target every night. You become the leader of each day and that greatly affects how people play. None of this is neither here nor there now, I suppose.

Also, hard FoS on Lander for defending kikori so adamantly. You said you only think kikori is mafia when he's playing badly. Sorry, but kikori was and is playing badly. Your votes for Sayaka don't have substance to follow them, just like probably everyone else voting Sayaka except PenguinGuy. You say that Sayaka exhibits a trait least likely to be held by the mafia, yet vote him anyway. Lol.

Also FoS on Dr Henry; trying to distance himself from the action by outright saying that the conflict is "Sayaka and Top VS kikori and Lander." When really, Sayaka and Top aren't reciprocating each other in any way besides their vote. I also find it strange that one of your first real "serious" posts of the game (not counting the one with the vote on me) was basically just a summary of all the action of the day and didn't include a vote. From day 2 onwards, there's no reason to not be voting someone. A vote is a townie's strongest, and only tool. Not voting shows hesitancy to be labeled or clumped with others later on when lynches and deaths happen. Basically, I think you've spent too much of this game trying to distance yourself from the heat around others, while still making sure you get a vote in on a townie.

And yes, I think Sayaka is a townie. (Not gonna think about the epic WIFOM master strategy plan thingy, yet, lol.)

If kikori flips mafia, which I think he will, I think Jackstick is a townie. (Either that or he knew that the day was about to be over and cleverly voted his scumbuddy realizing that a lynch wouldn't happen anyway.) Jackstick is a tough tell because he's never serious. Would love to hear more from him.

I think Tops is most likely a townie. I won't be voting for him anytime soon, unless he make a huge mistake. He logically backed off Sayaka and also logically defended himself against kikori's weak arguments. Could be a gambit between him and kikori, but I don't think so.

Aragorn, basically a coinflip. Pretty much bandwagoned on Sayaka earlier in the game and haven't heard any real original thoughts or ideas from him. Would love to hear more.

Ex Rex should already have been in line to be replaced. It's not fair to anyone in the game that he's being inactive, regardless of which side he is on.

I haven't found anything truly scummy about Godders. Probably a townie, although he could be playing the role of a lurking mafia very well.

Penguin is playing a good game, questioning basically everyone and remaining essentially neutral with his questions. No loaded or trick questions, etc.

Think I covered everyone. If I had to name the mafia at this point, in decreasing degree of "sureness", I'd say: kikori, Lander, Dr Henry, Aragorn.

And now I'm late for class. Oh well.

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I really expected to be killed off in the night. But i geuss the Mafia are avoiding killing anyone linked with Sayaka atm (Dr Henry, Kikori, Me, Lander, Top). Also im quite shocked that a lot of Veterans havent been killed of earlier. Unless the Mafia are trying to kill off the least veteran people first, which seems silly to me.



You know, i play Mafia almost as well as i host.

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There are 10 types of people in the world, the ones that understand binary, and the ones that don't.

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Kikori.

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There are 10 types of people in the world, the ones that understand binary, and the ones that don't.

Thanks Lou for the help with the avatar.

I'm going to go with Paidea's logic wrt Riptide's last vote: Kikori. If we fail to lynch today we're at a major disadvantage.

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Paidea, my post didn't have a vote because I had already voted that day and was sticking with it.

I also stick with what I said, Lander was defending Kikori against Top and Sayaka. I didn't distance myself from it, but the fact is anything I have said against any of them has been practically ignored.

So firstly you wrongly accuse me of not voting.
Secondly you say I have been trying to distance myself, when I haven't. I have been trying to get involved, on the limited time I have had, but been pretty much ignored.

However, this day will end pretty quickly as it is hard to dispute that Kikori is a likely target for the detective, and his early vote yesteday indicates a mafia reading for Riptide.

Kikori

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Just in case the day is over before I get a chance to reply to Doc/ clarify...

Your first post of day two cannot be meant to be serious. Your first serious post of day two, you didn't put a serious vote on anyone. Why would you "stick with your vote" on me when real action was happening and I hadn't even come into the game yet, so to speak?

To clarify, first you said

(my formatting)

And now you say,


So originally you group up Sayaka with Tops in terms of views. This is wrong because Sayaka is pushing against several people and questioning others, while refusing to explicitly state a reason for anyone. On the other hand, Tops has mostly turned his attention entirely to kikori, and is openly expressing his arguments.

You also grouped up Lander with kikori, presumably because they both found Sayaka to be scummy at that point in the game. Except that at the time of your post, kikori was targeting Tops. Lander wasn't targeting Tops at all, he only stated that he found Tops' logic to be flawed. So again, this is wrong of you to group them together.

Not only was your original grouping of 2v2 wrong, you have now changed your position to contending that Lander was in a 1v2 battle against Tops and Sayaka. Although this makes more sense, because Lander did in fact explicitly defend kikori in his post, it is your demonstrated inconsistency from post to post that leads me to believe you are probably mafia.

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