Mafia: XX - Game Over (Village and Mr Hyde win) rex smells!!

Topsummoner · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:44 pm

@ Kikori

In response to:

Kikori wrote:

The only relation thus far between Lander and Topsummoner is that Top claims Lander has made note-worthy posts directed at Top, where I see no such posts existing. Lander quoted Top once and said "Meritable post", that's it. If anything, Top's putting himself closer to Lander.

You missed this one:

Landerpurex wrote:

Topsummoner wrote:

Sigh........ One of these again?

DOES NOBODY KNOW WHAT A 'NORMAL' GAME ENTAILS?

By the way, I know who you are. Which, in turn, means you should now know who I am.

CODfisherMW2 · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:45 pm

Kikori wrote:

PenguinGuy wrote:

Lander claimed some sort of granny/paranoid gun owner, with some connection to Topsummoner.

This is the only thing that confused me.
I questioned Lander on if his role is such a paranoid gun owner, but he has neither confirmed nor denied.

Who between Henry and Lander do I think is mafia? To be honest, Landerpurex. The gut's not settled down, bro. Afraid to say, I don't think you're one of the good guys.

Kikori, what makes you think Lander would be the paranoid gun owner? This is genuine curiosity, but could change my outlook on the entirety of the game... knowing my role in it (hint hint).

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:48 pm

Kikori wrote:

PenguinGuy wrote:

Lander claimed some sort of granny/paranoid gun owner, with some connection to Topsummoner.

This is the only thing that confused me.
I questioned Lander on if his role is such a paranoid gun owner, but he has neither confirmed nor denied.

The only relation thus far between Lander and Topsummoner is that Top claims Lander has made note-worthy posts directed at Top, where I see no such posts existing. Lander quoted Top once and said "Meritable post", that's it. If anything, Top's putting himself closer to Lander.

So here's what we have.
I'm vengeful. Hammer my lynch at your own risk.
Henry's Bulletproof. He wants the Vigilante / Serial Killer to strike him to confirm that he indeed did not die in the night.
Monk Basher is a Tracker. We have yet to hear any results from him.
Lander has a passive role and "Dares the mafia to attack him", implying a retaliation but not defining how. (STILL WAITING ON MY 'YES' OR 'NO', SIR.)
Fisher seems to be pleasantly consistent. As Penguin said, his worst offense thus far is trying to keep from promoting activity.
Topsummoner claims village-aligned, with no further details, and is somewhat defending Lander. I have yet to see the logic behind the defense.
Riptide is being Riptide.
Jaron, Ex Rex, and Aragorn are quiet. In order: Somewhat understandable due to real life schedules, not understandable unless "fml, can't connect to rv" happened again, and nothing new there.

Once again. I want my "Yes" or "No" from Lander before I put my final thoughts on what I feel is the accuracy of the above list.

Alright, I got ninja'd with my answer.

It's my belief that either Landerpurex or Dr Henry is Mafia.
I substantiate my claim with the fact that I withheld one single condition to my role. I not only kill off whoever hammers me, but if I die by the night phase, my assailant goes down with me. It was hoped that I would be killed off tonight after putting in every two cents I had to put in, or survive until the very endgame. "Kikori's alive! Must be mafia!" The clever mafia waits, hammers me... and goes down with me.

But wait, there's more. See what that means for the roles? We have three people who effectively cause problems for the Mafia in the night. We have three Unlynchables. You may as well make us Masons if it's the truth, a game where we survive to the end would mean the Mafia are at such a loss for actions that the game could not be won. Despite Godders' inexperience at hosting, I firmly believe that he would NOT make such a mistake. We are minus a Doctor, so yes, increased power roles is understandable. But look at the list again.
Vigilante / Serial Killer.
Detective.
Tracker. (Monk Basher.)
Bomb. (Me.)
Bulletproof.
Paranoid Gun Owner.
Roleblocker. (Potentially mafia, but unconfirmed alignment. Potentially Jailkeeper.)
Either five or six village-aligned power roles, where one of them can't be killed by a Serial Killer (thus ruining the Serial Killer's chances at victory, which I believe means we have a Vigilante). I heavily, heavily doubt the above list is true. Two vengeful roles and one invincible role does not add up. If I am wrong about this, then Godders will never hear the end of it concerning the balance of roles in a game.

Who between Henry and Lander do I think is mafia? To be honest, Landerpurex. The gut's not settled down, bro. Afraid to say, I don't think you're one of the good guys.

Well it's not always deliberate, I've been bogged down with dissertation work so I'm making posts when I get the chance (usually in the early hours), it's pretty hard keeping up though. As you've pointed out above, there are way too many roles on the town side for that list to be accurate and balanced, unless the mafia has ridiculous multi roles. That said I do remember Orangequest made a role in legends that had about 10 different 1 shot roles, making it highly powered. What history does Godders have at mafia hosting? Is this his first?

Topsummoner · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:49 pm

This is his first time hosting. Also of note, is he is considerably less experienced in playing compared to most of the other people here.

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:50 pm

As I stated before, he did not outright claim it. He said he had a static role (i.e. has a trigger, not one he sends in to be performed at his disposal), begged the mafia to attack him, and very recently confirmed here that a Mafia attacking him would have negative effects for the Mafia.

And it does seem that I missed something between Top and Lander. Unfortunately, Top, given my current state of mind that doesn't help you much. And at least explains a little of where Riptide got the Lovers idea.

Unfortunately, Lovers does fit all categories for Lander's behavior. It would explain the relationship and, if Lander is indeed a villager, it would explain why Mafia-Topsummoner going down with him would be bad for the Mafia. And if it were indeed the case, it would mean Henry would be the most likely liar about his role.

CODfisherMW2 · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:51 pm

PenguinGuy wrote:

Well this is quite interesting.

Because we don't seem to agree, we have: Mafia (duh), a role with an extra killing ability (SK, Vig, or JoAT), a roleblocker, and a investigative role (due to framer), with doctors existence tenative. Monk has claimed Tracker, Kikori has claimed vengeful townie, Dr Henry has claimed bullet proof. Lander claimed some sort of granny/paranoid gun owner, with some connection to Topsummoner.

Penguin I can't find where Lander assumes the paranoid gun owner position, can you quote it out for me?

PenguinGuy · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:53 pm

Landerpurex wrote:

Topsummoner wrote:

Sigh........ One of these again?

DOES NOBODY KNOW WHAT A 'NORMAL' GAME ENTAILS?

By the way, I know who you are. Which, in turn, means you should now know who I am.

Was refering to that. Also, when you were told you were roleblocked, was it indicated or hinted at what kind of roleblocker? Like a Consigliere versus a Drunk? I remember in the last game I played there was both, myself being the mafia consigliere and Monk being the town drunk.

For CODfisher, paranoid gun owner is a role the kills anyone that enters his house. That is why we beleive Lander has been baiting the mafia to attack him, likely because he would take one down with him.

Landerpurex wrote:

I have a role as well, though I certainly am not going to reveal anything more than that. Since everyone else wants to come out, I might as well also and give the mafia many, many targets. I am town aligned.

I'm begging the mafia to attack me. Begging.

For Aragon, no, I beleive this is his first.

Sorry for repeating, mega ninja'd

Landerpurex · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 9:55 pm

Kikori

Why exactly do you think I'm mafia? And why Henry? Because we've claimed roles? I see zero real reasoning in your post for your vote on me.

What's more striking, is you've now changed you vote and your focus from the man who is (was?) willing to hammer you. I'm not buying it for a second. What you've contrived is a reason to keep from being lynched during the day, and a reason to keep the 'mafia' from killing you at night. Too coincidental, buddy.

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:00 pm

Was something about my post unclear?

Henry can't be killed in the night.
I will blow up whoever is responsible for my death.
You will cause retribution to the Mafia.

That is too vastly overpowered for the Village under any circumstance. Either Godders is a terribad host, or someone was lying.

You were the last to claim. You provided the least details about your role, and even less when prodded to do so. There are multiple people confused about your role, yet you offer no answers despite the game being full of special roles and targets.
And though it can never be proven with words and facts, my gut still screams for your death.

I italicized the "Or" when listing "Landerpurex or Henry" because I believe only one of you to be a liar. Call it a wild guess, but I don't think we have two liars between you two. Just one. One who is more vague about his role, when it mimics mine--retribution upon death--as opposed to Henry's--invincibility.

Saten Ruiko · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:01 pm

Topsummoner wrote:

Can't get a good read of Fisher since he's new. So in the meantime, Sayaka, where are you?

Right here where I've always been; reading all the posts and thinking about which statements aren't adding up.

Market Man6 wrote:

monk, ex rex, pengin guy, sayaka.
i dont like the inactivity. i wouldnt object to a lynch on any of these guys.
so far sayaka has the most votes, so i will throw mine in there and await a response.

I thought at this point I only had 1. But votes keep switching around, so if there's like three people with one vote each against them then you're probably technically correct.

Ohhhh, wait you meant the most out of those four people. Okay nevermind I get you now.

I'd like to point out a couple of deductions that don't sit well with me.

This morning:

Kikori wrote:

We've either got a serial killer, a vigilante, or a Jack-Of-All-Trades type.

Obviously I haven't played a game in ages, but isn't there a role where a targeted person stays up all night and shoots the first person that comes through the door? Didn't Goten have a role like that? Animal was a Framer so he was obviously visiting someone. Godders doesn't REALLY say how Animal died. His exact words were "someone who had been brutally been to death", which I assume is another typo. You guys are all assuming there's an extra role that kills people at night, but I think my theory holds water.

Kikori wrote:

Tracker? It's one of the main investigative roles.
Detective investigates a house to determine alignment.

Watcher picks a target household and keeps their eyes on the house to see who enters.
Tracker picks a target person to stalk, to see who is being visited. Say a tracker follows a doctor into a person's home. No death could confirm that the Tracker knows his target is a non-lethal power role.

Or the tracker followed a Mafia and a Doctor visited the same house, which means the person didn't die, in which case your deduction is false. Or the Doctor doesn't even have to visit if the target is Bulletproof or something. Likewise, or the tracker follows a Detective into a house where someone was killed by the Mafia that same night--that doesn't mean the tracker found a Mafia member. I take issue with your use of the word "confirm" here, as really it just grants a good deal of evidence, but hardly 100% confirms anything.

Jeez guys, you made six posts in the time it took me to write this.

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:02 pm

Kikori wrote:

Henry can't be killed in the night.
I will blow up whoever is responsible for my death.
You will cause retribution to the Mafia if they kill you.

Fixed / clarified.

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:03 pm

Jaron, the doctor died before the game started...

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:05 pm

Sayaka wrote:

Kikori wrote:

Tracker picks a target person to stalk, to see who is being visited. Say a tracker follows a doctor into a person's home. No death could confirm that the Tracker knows his target is a non-lethal power role.

Or the tracker followed a Mafia and a Doctor visited the same house, which means the person didn't die, in which case your deduction is false. Or the Doctor doesn't even have to visit if the target is Bulletproof or something. Likewise, or the tracker follows a Detective into a house where someone was killed by the Mafia that same night--that doesn't mean the tracker found a Mafia member. I take issue with your use of the word "confirm" here, as really it just grants a good deal of evidence, but hardly 100% confirms anything.

Jeez guys, you made six posts in the time it took me to write this.

"Could confirm". It's the same reason a Detective finding "Mafia" on a villager when a framer is present why there's a level of uncertainty.
It wasn't meant to be a perfect example, just a demonstration of how the role is used. :p

And I know the feeling. When a rush happens, it happens.

Saten Ruiko · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:07 pm

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Jaron, the doctor died before the game started...

So Godders said.

My point was not specifically to relate the Tracker role to this game (although I think a Backup Doctor is still a very real possibility.) It was to point out that it doesn't "confirm" what Kikori said it did.

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:08 pm

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Jaron, the doctor died before the game started...

He wasn't referring to this game in specific. He was pointing out the flaw in the logic of my Tracker example.
Remember, my example used a Doctor. I know we don't seem to have one, but it's the logic he's talking about. :p

Dammit, ninja'd while catching up on Skype messages! DX

Aragorn Ix · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:09 pm

Kikori wrote:

Aragorn Ix wrote:

Jaron, the doctor died before the game started...

He wasn't referring to this game in specific. He was pointing out the flaw in the logic of my Tracker example.
Remember, my example used a Doctor. I know we don't seem to have one, but it's the logic he's talking about. :p

Dammit, ninja'd while catching up on Skype messages! DX

Oh right, that makes sense, besides there could be a med student at the start or something? Although with the amaount of claimed roles that's just ridiculous.

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:12 pm

Let's see...

Jailkeeper (roleblocker + doctor)
Jack of All Trades (one-shot)
Med Student / Nurse (i.e. backup doctor)
Bus Driver (target swapper, if I recall right)
Variant-Doctor (Weak, Quack, Paranoid, etc)

Those are the only potential protective roles I can think of off the top of my head, listed in order of likelihood in my opinion.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:13 pm

I think with the abundance of town-roles, the roleblocker being Mafia makes much more sense. As such I don't believe we have a Jailkeeper.

Kikori · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:14 pm

Topsummoner wrote:

I think with the abundance of town-roles, the roleblocker being Mafia makes much more sense. As such I don't believe we have a Jailkeeper.

You'll be surprised when the game's over, I imagine.

Topsummoner · **Posted:** June 5th, 2012, 10:15 pm

Please go on.

Mafia: XX - Game Over (Village and Mr Hyde win) rex smells!!

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