Bumping thread. Discords active'ish
Nice! Logging in
Statistics: Posted by Punkmonkey25 — October 15th, 2020, 6:42 pm
]]>
]]>
Yay Discord!
Statistics: Posted by bartoron — March 6th, 2019, 6:57 pm
]]>
Statistics: Posted by Saten Ruiko — March 3rd, 2019, 10:43 pm
]]>
]]>
]]>
]]>
I support Znath being unbanned because I don't think he's ever done anything that warrants him being banned. I also support anyone being kicked out of it if it's what everybody wants. It just depends on what the discord chat is going to be in affiliation with RV.
And if it IS going to be an official part of RV then top should be added to the chat moderator ranks so that we can discuss things like this in the appropriate areas.
Statistics: Posted by Pyro3000 — March 19th, 2017, 6:36 am
]]>
Znath, at a time when both of us are online I would like to discuss what happened with you in a Direct Message on Discord. I will go into more detail there, but for now I would like to apologize for my poor handling of the situation up until now.
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — March 19th, 2017, 2:30 am
]]>
If you're concerned about my ability as an administrator, I've got a far more active server (mucord) where many agree I am an excellent administrator. My difficulty in this situation arose from feeling like that experience was inapplicable to this situation, as I went into in my prior post.
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — March 18th, 2017, 11:44 pm
]]>
I was on board for permanent, until Znath's civil post an hour back. Even though it doesn't do the whole job with explaining or justifying his actions, it's the first big sign of the side of him I really liked befriending since he joined Discord. Now I'm personally undecided.
Statistics: Posted by Kikori — March 18th, 2017, 11:21 pm
]]>
Jackstick wrote:
No, it's about how Top forms the decisions he makes, being subjective instead of objective. Znath happened to be the one on the receiving end, so yes he was mentioned in my post. I would've made the same argument if a decision like that were made for anyone else. Replace "Znath" with "a user", my point still stands. It's about a moderator's relationship with the community.
You're still isolating a single user with power's feelings for a single user that way. The decision was made based on a single user with power's perspective of a community's feelings for a single user.I'm really not, though. It's about how Top chooses to address problems as a moderator. Imagine if an HR makes a poorly-received decision that impacts a worker's future. Sure, you can narrow it down the dynamic between those two people, but the broader and long-term issue to be addressed is how this HR's decision-making will impact other people in the future. It's a bit of extrapolation, which I know isn't the most elegant way of determining a person's character, but a poorly-made and poorly-received decision ought to be addressed anyway. Can you agree that disregarding Jaron's suggestions was a poor decision? Can you agree that this decision doesn't have the backing of the community, when basically every post in here is "Znath gets on my nerves, but a ban is too harsh."? And if so, can you say that the "perspective of the community" isn't exactly being represented by this decision if so many people here think it was a harsh punishment? This is where my concern comes from.
Statistics: Posted by Jackstick — March 18th, 2017, 11:13 pm
]]>
Honestly, I thought we were knowingly joking about the gluten thing (if that's what you're referring to) it wasn't something to make him mad I was trying to just make light of it. I do the same with my brother and his peanut allergy. It's not out of spite, but just kind of make him laugh out of it instead of it being a burden on him all the time. Otherwise he's just dwelling on missing out.
Statistics: Posted by Saten Ruiko — March 18th, 2017, 11:03 pm
]]>
No, it's about how Top forms the decisions he makes, being subjective instead of objective. Znath happened to be the one on the receiving end, so yes he was mentioned in my post. I would've made the same argument if a decision like that were made for anyone else. Replace "Znath" with "a user", my point still stands. It's about a moderator's relationship with the community.
Jackstick wrote:
Yes, I do think that my opinion matters in community-related issues, I'm not at all trying to hide that. I was a moderator and admin of multiple areas for a long time, so you can chalk it up to old habits, but you don't need the aggressive tone to go with it. I have a voice here and I fully intend on using it.
Jaron wrote:
I disagree strongly with you here, Kik. This "former mod who has probably the most experience with Znath" is a former mod because they went on a banning spree. You can probably see how "yeah ban him" doesn't come across as impartial at all.
Statistics: Posted by Kikori — March 18th, 2017, 11:02 pm
]]>
Jackstick wrote:
I am concerned about the community as a whole, because it should concern the community that the only area of RV that is active on a day-to-day basis can be taken away from you if Top and the people he cherry-picks to communicate with don't like you.
Jackstick wrote:
I think you should unban him, and in the future consult your decisions first with Jaron, or Pyro or myself if Jaron is not available, since the three of us have more experience in this sort of thing than you.
Translation: Cherry-pick who you communicate with about the issue. And if you know about who he talked to, you should know he's already got 2/3 of who you suggested. The only difference is instead of you, he talked to a former mod who has probably the most experience with Znath. So don't even try to say your list is only about moderation experience, because it already was; your suggestion is solely to get yourself added to the list. Didn't know who he talked to before? Then you assumed, poorly, and made an ass of you and him.
For the record, Jackstick, I did talk about it with Top; several times in fact. But I also disagreed with him about it and stated every time that there needed to be strong, clear warnings about what was about to happen and give him a chance to shape up, or else it would just be a repeat of Rexchat.
Statistics: Posted by Saten Ruiko — March 18th, 2017, 10:57 pm
]]>
Jackstick wrote:
Show me where in my post I'm talking about the relationship between Znath and Top. My post is about Top's decision-making skills as a moderator and the precedent it sets.
Jackstick wrote:
I don't know how much my word counts anymore, but for whatever it's worth, I'm against banning someone just because you don't like their personality, or because you don't think they "belong". ... If you don't like Znath, right-click his name and ignore him. If he abuses the bots, design the bots so that they can ignore commands from particular users.
The discord channel has essentially become the last meaningful and active branch of the RV community for most of us who are still active on a day-to-day basis, and you've effectively denied Znath access to a community that he's been a part of for over a decade, because you don't like him.
No, it's about how Top forms the decisions he makes, being subjective instead of objective. Znath happened to be the one on the receiving end, so yes he was mentioned in my post. I would've made the same argument if a decision like that were made for anyone else. Replace "Znath" with "a user", my point still stands. It's about a moderator's relationship with the community.
Kikori wrote:
Jackstick wrote:
Everything is debatable. I can't recall a single scenario in which we as moderators were stonewalled with that sort of claim. What kind of thing is that to say?
Little debate isn't no debate. Don't try to twist my words.Fair enough, but either way it doesn't sit well with me when you start to imply that some things are intrinsically less debatable than other things. Maybe to you there are less shades of grey, but in my experience it's best to encourage a wide open field for all forms of discussion and opinion instead of keeping it narrow from the start. You learn a thing or two from that and, many times in the past, strongly-held opinions can be influenced with discussion and debate.
Kikori wrote:
Jackstick wrote:
I am concerned about the community as a whole, because it should concern the community that the only area of RV that is active on a day-to-day basis can be taken away from you if Top and the people he cherry-picks to communicate with don't like you.
Jackstick wrote:
I think you should unban him, and in the future consult your decisions first with Jaron, or Pyro or myself if Jaron is not available, since the three of us have more experience in this sort of thing than you.
Translation: Cherry-pick who you communicate with about the issue. And if you know about who he talked to, you should know he's already got 2/3 of who you suggested. The only difference is instead of you, he talked to a former mod who has probably the most experience with Znath. So don't even try to say your list is only about moderation experience, because it already was; your suggestion is solely to get yourself added to the list. Didn't know who he talked to before? Then you assumed, poorly, and made an ass of you and him.
Yes, I do think that my opinion matters in community-related issues, I'm not at all trying to hide that. I was a moderator and admin of multiple areas for a long time, so you can chalk it up to old habits, but you don't need the aggressive tone to go with it. I have a voice here and I fully intend on using it.
Statistics: Posted by Jackstick — March 18th, 2017, 10:49 pm
]]>
Show me where in my post I'm talking about the relationship between Znath and Top. My post is about Top's decision-making skills as a moderator and the precedent it sets.
Jackstick wrote:
I don't know how much my word counts anymore, but for whatever it's worth, I'm against banning someone just because you don't like their personality, or because you don't think they "belong". ... If you don't like Znath, right-click his name and ignore him. If he abuses the bots, design the bots so that they can ignore commands from particular users.
The discord channel has essentially become the last meaningful and active branch of the RV community for most of us who are still active on a day-to-day basis, and you've effectively denied Znath access to a community that he's been a part of for over a decade, because you don't like him.
Jackstick wrote:
Everything is debatable. I can't recall a single scenario in which we as moderators were stonewalled with that sort of claim. What kind of thing is that to say?
Jackstick wrote:
I am concerned about the community as a whole, because it should concern the community that the only area of RV that is active on a day-to-day basis can be taken away from you if Top and the people he cherry-picks to communicate with don't like you.
Jackstick wrote:
I think you should unban him, and in the future consult your decisions first with Jaron, or Pyro or myself if Jaron is not available, since the three of us have more experience in this sort of thing than you.
Translation: Cherry-pick who you communicate with about the issue. And if you know about who he talked to, you should know he's already got 2/3 of who you suggested. The only difference is instead of you, he talked to a former mod who has probably the most experience with Znath. So don't even try to say your list is only about moderation experience, because it already was; your suggestion is solely to get yourself added to the list. Didn't know who he talked to before? Then you assumed, poorly, and made an ass of you and him.
Statistics: Posted by Kikori — March 18th, 2017, 10:28 pm
]]>
It's a fine line between laughing at differences and making our differences something to just laugh about. I'm not saying everything is a joke, but everything isn't a funeral either.
We tolerated far worse from far consistently worse people in the old chat. But the difference is I don't act the way I do out of malice, it was meant to be out of some kind of brotherly feeling. I'm not from an abusive family, really, but we're all a little rough probably from the feedback I'm apparently getting. I was basically treating people in the chat how I would my brothers and I guess I was too comfortable. I learned a lot about people. Some I thought I knew, and others I apparently judged to have had more against me than I thought.
I had thought about saying
it. Uprooting everything I'd done, and erase myself from a community I'd been with for years maybe off and on but been through some fairly gut wrenching times. And maybe that's why I felt comfortable enough to make some jabs I thought people could take but apparently I broke skin when I wasn't trying to. And it's no secret. I like a good debate. I like being able to meet with people with different ideas. We can all call each other wrong and present our facts and opinions and figures and come up with different conclusions. It's like piling legos and gears and looking at the creativity and intricacies in people's minds as they come up with something unique. We might be sore about the other side at the end, but I'd like that people can come back from that and say it was a good debate. I don't bear ill against people who disagree with me. I don't think Fant is stupid for one debate we had about the impact of a cellphone charger on a car's power supply or hate top for his taste in music. I've given it a listen and decided "I'm clearly not the target for this"
Hell I've even given the honest try to watch some of your guy's .. really weird taste in anime. I wasn't even disappointed to my surprise.
And that's why I like debate. It brings up new opinions and ideas for me to see if maybe my belief is as strong as I thought or maybe if they have good reasons for their side maybe to find common ground.
We got some people back, some didn't stay, and I doubt you can blame me for all of em. Some of the ones that left weren't that active to begin with. I've tried to be active and suggest things for the chat and many of them people like. It was like rebuilding things from the ashes.
Statistics: Posted by Znath — March 18th, 2017, 10:21 pm
]]>
First off, I know I did not handle this in the moment very well at all. The circumstances under which I banned Znath definitely came across as very petty or heat of the moment, and to some degree this is true. But this is really the culmination of months of frustration, not just from me, but from a number of the most active members of the chat.
Some unique circumstances caused this to be a very difficult problem for me to tackle. I intended this Discord channel as a successor to the Skype group more so than RV Chat; the final product once things settled ended up being somewhere between the two. From the start, the only rule has been, and this has been a silent rule borne of and enforced through a mutual understanding, 'no nsfw'. And for the most part, this is upheld with no incident.
So my idea was for this to be a congregation of friends and old acquaintances, not a moderated chatroom. But this led to a problem... what do you do when one person's presence is impacting the enjoyment of the server for others?
I didn't really feel like it was my place to tell Znath what he could and could not post, and with that in mind I totally understand how he, and some others, may think that he had 'done nothing wrong'. But what I was observing was his posting was a regular irritant for no less than Rory, Sparky, Quan, Ead, Kikori, and myself, perhaps to different degrees for some than others. When it came to the point where Rory felt he needed to take a hiatus from the server largely due to being fed up with Znath, I knew something had to give.
I don't really know what I should have done. Multiple people were getting fed up, and it finally hit a tipping point with me. But telling him specifically how he could not post starts the server down that moderation and rules direction I didn't want to go. The only solution that seemed to me like it would work is removing him outright.
I'll take more direct questions if any of you have them. The last thing I want is for this action to lead to a schism like what happened with Rex's Skype chat.
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — March 18th, 2017, 10:09 pm
]]>
Jack, your entire post is aimed at isolating Znath vs. Top. As a mod and staff member, you should know the feelings of community as a whole are just as important as the feelings of the two people involved when the decision is handed down. I've said it to Top a couple times since the ban went down that how it was handled was questionable. But what was done, and why it was done, are far, far less debatable. When numerous people have to ignore a single user who everyone (to this point) has agreed was more menace than friend, there's little debate.
And if you want to treat this as an issue of being a perfect mod as opposed to keeping the peace in a group of friends, telling the host of a website, chat, or channel to ignore a trouble user is the absolute opposite of handling it correctly. Discord is special in that an ignored user's content is collapsed, keeping its content available to see, but it still would force the position of "I can't see anything coming until after I've been alerted, or the damage has been done". Pretty
one to be in.Show me where in my post I'm talking about the relationship between Znath and Top. My post is about Top's decision-making skills as a moderator and the precedent it sets.
Everything is debatable. I can't recall a single scenario in which we as moderators were stonewalled with that sort of claim. What kind of thing is that to say?
I am concerned about the community as a whole, because it should concern the community that the only area of RV that is active on a day-to-day basis can be taken away from you if Top and the people he cherry-picks to communicate with don't like you. And I get that it's not just Top, I get that Znath has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but Top is the one making the call on the basis that it's his channel. Good for him for having his channel, but it's worth considering that "his channel" and the "rv community" are heavily overlapped for better or worse, and when his - what I consider to be, subjective decisions - begin impact a user's access to the community then, well, you start to see why Ex Rex had the rug pulled out from under him. And, judging from the posts in here, Top made the wrong call and made it on a whim. Some of you may have even expected me to side with his decision since Znath has rubbed me the wrong way many times, but this sort of ban sets a bad precedent, and I know a silly ban when I see one.
I think the final decision on matters like this should be made by Jaron, and/or discussed with people who actually are chat moderators of the community. It takes a bit of mental gymnastics to justify that the desires of Topsummoner outweigh those of the community leader and the staff. If the only logic behind it is "it's his channel" then I refer you again to Ex Rex, and what a shitstorm that sort of reasoning can result in.
Statistics: Posted by Jackstick — March 18th, 2017, 9:59 pm
]]>