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I think this day should be maybe respect to all soldiers world wide day ww2 was the bloodiest war of all time. Do you think if the Japanese got ah old of the à bomb or Germans first they wouldn't of used it? I think its best that day maybe be a day of rememberance for our fallen soldiers world wide that died during ww2 civilians also air raids a bomb etc.
There's plenty of remembrance days as it is. I don't think a day where thousands of innocent lives were wiped out without trace in a second should be celebrated. Nuclear bombs are the worst thing mankind has ever invented. They cost a fortune, and no-one wants to use them because of MAD. Don't celebrate an idea that's flawed from the start.
Also, whilst I admit that it was probably best that the US beat the germans, and maybe indeed the russians to nuclear armaments, regardless of who dropped what on whom, nuclear weapons are not something to be celebrated.
By all means, celebrate the end of the war. Celebrate the collapse of the Berlin Wall, Celebrate the fall of the Soviet Union. Don't celebrate mass-murder.
Statistics: Posted by The123king — December 1st, 2013, 8:08 am
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Arya wrote:
We celebrate every July 4th ( Independence Day ) the end of a war that killed many Americans and British.
Eadwulf, over Skype wrote:
You just can't make this
up, mate.Statistics: Posted by Kikori — January 7th, 2013, 10:52 am
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The end of the Revolutionary War
brought independence for 13 American
states. How Americans would use their
newfound freedom was not immediately
certain.
They quartered them. 13 was not enough.
Statistics: Posted by Market Man6 — January 1st, 2013, 11:55 am
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We celebrate every July 4th ( Independence Day ) the end of a war that killed many Americans and British.
Statistics: Posted by Eadwulf — January 1st, 2013, 6:43 am
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Why celebrate killing so many people? o.O
We celebrate every July 4th ( Independence Day ) the end of a war that killed many Americans and British.
Nps wrote:
The end of the Revolutionary War brought independence for 13 American states. How Americans would use their newfound freedom was not immediately certain.
AmericanFamilyTraditions wrote:
Screen shot 2012-12-20 at 11.18.20 AM.png
We have lost many people over the time since the United States "came to be".
Why should we not celebrate that we are still around today through all the tragedies global and within our country?
Statistics: Posted by Arya — December 20th, 2012, 11:22 am
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The bomb dropping was a brilliant military move. As I recall, axis powers suspected that we had something, but they didn't know what. They were (may have been) racing to build such a weapon themselves. We knew that dropping the bomb would end the war. We had an idea as to how awful it'd be, awful enough to shock Japan into submission. And it did just that. As someone said previously, their demands for surrender or truce were ridiculous.
As others have said thus far, it certainly prevented more death. No one besides those who served could know the true horror of WWII. *Ending* the war as fast as possible, especially at that point, was easily the best course of action.
As Einstein said: "I made one great mistake in my life — when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was some justification — the danger that the Germans would make them..."
Now on the flipside, everyone should be aware that the pain and suffering didn't end anywhere near the drop of the bomb. They're still happening. Radiation sickness and other related complications killed thousands more after the drop, and no numbers you find pertaining to a death toll will be entirely accurate. Due to radiation poisoning, certain Japanese families are *still* at a higher risk for diseases such as leukemia.
Terrible occurrence. But necessary.
Mutually Assured Destruction is assumed during war, so Japan should have seen something like this coming once Germany started getting their arses kicked.
Statistics: Posted by Landerpurex — August 11th, 2012, 9:38 pm
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But celebrating the death of 200,000 people, dick move.
Statistics: Posted by Godders — August 11th, 2012, 4:47 am
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Market Man6 wrote:
i think that is a classless act. boasting about how your nation killed so many. especially when they killed in a way that required such little skill. dropping that bomb required little talent, especially when comparing it to hand to hand combat.
How is the delivery method of death even relevant? Dead is dead, if that's your goal, just do it. Honor in war isn't important (as a goal). Killing the enemy is. That's why there is no such thing as marching out into a battlefield and lining up with muskets anymore, it's why snipers exist, as well as every piece of modern day military goes.
Christopher wrote:
Magicana Drofulcus wrote:
the proposition that dropping the bomb was wrong.
Killing people generally is wrong.
Necessary? Sometimes, sadly, yes. Under circumstance of protection in a world of conflict, it is unavoidable.
But that doesn't make it right. In can be justified, but not be made right
"Generally is wrong" "doesn't make it right"
You sound confused.
Do you think killing Bin Laden (most recent example that came to mind) was wrong then as well? Or is it just the civilians? Do you place civilian life over that of military personnel? Where's your personal line of decency lie?
Is it a day for celebration? Yes... Yes it is. World War 2 was a horrific event in the history of mankind, it's closure should bring celebration. To put it bluntly, getting upset over the METHOD of 200,000 Japanese dying is a little bit silly when the U.S.S.R. alone lost upwards of 20 million civilians/military personnel. I think the ballpark for total casualties (military as well as civillian) was somewhere between 55-75 million worldwide, which was somewhere around 3% of world population... Really? You're going to lament 200,000 Japanese because of the way they died? Sorry, dying in a war is going to be gruesome no matter how you go unless it's a direct artillery hit or shot in the head. Think: gutshot and bleeding out over the course of 20 minutes, land mines, shrapnel from hand grenades, heavy artillery, panzerfaust, mortars, air raids, V1 rockets, mustard gas, Auschwitz (and many other camps) being experimented on, starved, and worked to literal death, mass oppression of the people in many countries... the list is basically endless and that's just off the top of my head.
I think celebration is due from a horrific time in history being ended. The only thing I take issue with is the "America", after "Go"... It wasn't just our victory.
Magicana Drofulcus wrote:
Thank you for adding 5 short paragraphs of garbage that added nothing to the discussion about the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings. Even I had the courtesy to do at least that.
Don't outsmart yourself, hotshot.
Regardless of your views, the guy on facebook sounded was celebrating the act (killing of 200,000) as American victory, not lamenting the end of the brutal war.
Statistics: Posted by Aragorn Ix — August 11th, 2012, 4:32 am
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i think that is a classless act. boasting about how your nation killed so many. especially when they killed in a way that required such little skill. dropping that bomb required little talent, especially when comparing it to hand to hand combat.
How is the delivery method of death even relevant? Dead is dead, if that's your goal, just do it. Honor in war isn't important (as a goal). Killing the enemy is. That's why there is no such thing as marching out into a battlefield and lining up with muskets anymore, it's why snipers exist, as well as every piece of modern day military goes.
Christopher wrote:
Magicana Drofulcus wrote:
the proposition that dropping the bomb was wrong.
Killing people generally is wrong.
Necessary? Sometimes, sadly, yes. Under circumstance of protection in a world of conflict, it is unavoidable.
But that doesn't make it right. In can be justified, but not be made right
"Generally is wrong" "doesn't make it right"
You sound confused.
Do you think killing Bin Laden (most recent example that came to mind) was wrong then as well? Or is it just the civilians? Do you place civilian life over that of military personnel? Where's your personal line of decency lie?
Is it a day for celebration? Yes... Yes it is. World War 2 was a horrific event in the history of mankind, it's closure should bring celebration. To put it bluntly, getting upset over the METHOD of 200,000 Japanese dying is a little bit silly when the U.S.S.R. alone lost upwards of 20 million civilians/military personnel. I think the ballpark for total casualties (military as well as civillian) was somewhere between 55-75 million worldwide, which was somewhere around 3% of world population... Really? You're going to lament 200,000 Japanese because of the way they died? Sorry, dying in a war is going to be gruesome no matter how you go unless it's a direct artillery hit or shot in the head. Think: gutshot and bleeding out over the course of 20 minutes, land mines, shrapnel from hand grenades, heavy artillery, panzerfaust, mortars, air raids, V1 rockets, mustard gas, Auschwitz (and many other camps) being experimented on, starved, and worked to literal death, mass oppression of the people in many countries... the list is basically endless and that's just off the top of my head.
I think celebration is due from a horrific time in history being ended. The only thing I take issue with is the "America", after "Go"... It wasn't just our victory.
Magicana Drofulcus wrote:
Thank you for adding 5 short paragraphs of garbage that added nothing to the discussion about the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings. Even I had the courtesy to do at least that.
Don't outsmart yourself, hotshot.
Statistics: Posted by Suicide Messiah — August 10th, 2012, 6:10 pm
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Kikori wrote:
Eadwulf wrote:
Which also illustrates why this subforum exists; labels aside, this actually wasn't originally created for actual debates per se, but rather to keep controversial topics and their inevitable flame wars away from the general chat forum.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=437588 ?
But don't you realise it now? It was there all along!
Statistics: Posted by Eadwulf — August 9th, 2012, 12:06 am
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To rephrase your defense: "It's okay to be condescending and not have an argument because I'm on runevillage."
You can make a point, or be opinionated, or even factual if you want, without attaching the unnecessary volatility of statements such as:
"Thank you all for providing your very nuanced ideas on what was needed to win the war."
But it requires intelligence and self control, and also a desire to learn and grow from a discussion.
Just because you are in an environment where not everyone approaches the discussion that way, does not necessarily mean that it justifies your position. This is the classic "Well, everyone else is doing it, so it's okay".
It is unfortunate that the method by which you have and formulate your position is reckless and riddled with emotion and even some fickle play, otherwise one of us could have gleaned any sort of small marginal benefit or exchange of information from your action of typing up several words and posting it to the internet. Instead you just added more garbage.
Thank you for adding 5 short paragraphs of garbage that added nothing to the discussion about the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings. Even I had the courtesy to do at least that.
Statistics: Posted by Magicana Drofulcus — August 8th, 2012, 11:59 pm
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Eadwulf wrote:
Aragorn Ix wrote:
I take issue with you talking down at people like they're children just because they put across a view that you disagree with
Pffft, then why are you posting in the debate forum?
Pretty much this.
This is the debate forum, not a "Love and Tolerance" board. Best way to deflate a condescending argument? Have a really good one to puncture it and my self-esteem. A trendy 'everyone has an opinion and no one is wrong' doesn't cut it.
Except I did exactly that and you replied with a sarcastic reference to coca cola...
Statistics: Posted by Aragorn Ix — August 8th, 2012, 11:57 pm
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Which also illustrates why this subforum exists; labels aside, this actually wasn't originally created for actual debates per se, but rather to keep controversial topics and their inevitable flame wars away from the general chat forum.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=437588 ?
Statistics: Posted by Kikori — August 8th, 2012, 11:53 pm
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You can make a point, or be opinionated, or even factual if you want, without attaching the unnecessary volatility of statements such as:
"Thank you all for providing your very nuanced ideas on what was needed to win the war."
But it requires intelligence and self control, and also a desire to learn and grow from a discussion.
Just because you are in an environment where not everyone approaches the discussion that way, does not necessarily mean that it justifies your position. This is the classic "Well, everyone else is doing it, so it's okay".
It is unfortunate that the method by which you have and formulate your position is reckless and riddled with emotion and even some fickle play, otherwise one of us could have gleaned any sort of small marginal benefit or exchange of information from your action of typing up several words and posting it to the internet. Instead you just added more garbage.
Statistics: Posted by Proletariat — August 8th, 2012, 11:33 pm
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Which also illustrates why this subforum exists; labels aside, this actually wasn't originally created for actual debates per se, but rather to keep controversial topics and their inevitable flame wars away from the general chat forum. As negative as it sounds, if you want to be in a real debate... don't go on the internet.
Statistics: Posted by Eadwulf — August 8th, 2012, 6:37 pm
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Aragorn Ix wrote:
I take issue with you talking down at people like they're children just because they put across a view that you disagree with
Pffft, then why are you posting in the debate forum?
Pretty much this.
This is the debate forum, not a "Love and Tolerance" board. Best way to deflate a condescending argument? Have a really good one to puncture it and my self-esteem. A trendy 'everyone has an opinion and no one is wrong' doesn't cut it.
Statistics: Posted by Magicana Drofulcus — August 8th, 2012, 5:59 pm
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