Zilla wrote:
Wait...
So Pyro also blocked my kill? Am I reading that right? How does that even work if he's the detective?
So Pyro also blocked my kill? Am I reading that right? How does that even work if he's the detective?
Market Man6 wrote:
I'm pretty sure frank blocked you.
Yeah I role blocked you Zilla. I had a "JOATs" equivalent mafia role where I was able to one-shot mute someone, frame someone, and roleblock.
Ah ok. That makes sense then.
Statistics: Posted by Zilla — July 29th, 2016, 10:29 pm
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Saten Ruiko wrote:
The Mafia would've just killed him Night 2 anyway.
False. Pyro was causing more harm than good for the village, and we still had a Doctor to fish for, so it's highly unlikely we'd have gone for him Night Two. It probably still would have been a Kikori kill really.
And then I would have investigated Sighence that night since I figured if there was a framer involved that they would go for top or myself that night.
Leaving my only investigations on Zilla and Sighence since I would be killed night 3.
Honestly, I stick by what I did with my reveal. I only outed the name of the JOAT when it looked like I was about to die. I was expecting the doctor to live longer when I made my reveal because the mafia had a small chance of getting them. But Kikori's line about not being framable made it clear he had a special role.
Had I felt like there was going to be more activity otherwise, I would have held off, but I had a feeling that the game wasn't going to move otherwise so I took a shot in the dark and used myself as a magnet. I was in hopes that by saying the doctor should protect Zilla and that Zilla should protect me that neither of them would do so because of how unconfirmed I was, but that the mafia would think they might and then try to kill someone else such as Sparky again that would have been a priority target (and that he would likely be protected by the doctor). Unfortunately that backfired and people took it as me trying to specifically set the night up for a safe lynch. Obviously I had forgotten that Zilla was a one time action role through the years, but I didn't really want her to use the protect at that time, but then I realized once it was pointed out that it was a one action role that she was about to waste an investigate or a bullet on me.
Obviously when I hit 5 votes things started getting dire, but I was heavily suspicious that I wasn't getting more because only the mafia would want to kill off the detective no matter what circumstance. So I upped my vote count to 6 in hopes that it would drive that point home, and that if I was wrong the remaining mafia would likely jump on me and make it obvious.
But when I was at seven it looked like Zilla would waste he shot on me because she seemed absolutely convinced that I was mafia. So I bit the bullet and hit the 8 hoping she might fire at top instead.
Wasn't expecting a roleblocker, though. Just expected a framer at most.
And honestly on Day 3 I thought it had all worked out and that the village was going to win, but then Top managed to survive and then convince everyone to just ignore what happened day 2 and not center things around my antics. Then suddenly the votes were all divided everywhere.
Probably more than anything the Inactive players on Day 3 that could have helped to aid the Top lynch is what likely really lost the game for the Village.
Statistics: Posted by Pyro3000 — July 29th, 2016, 11:41 am
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Wait...
So Pyro also blocked my kill? Am I reading that right? How does that even work if he's the detective?
Market Man6 wrote:
I'm pretty sure frank blocked you.
Yeah I role blocked you Zilla. I had a "JOATs" equivalent mafia role where I was able to one-shot mute someone, frame someone, and roleblock.
Statistics: Posted by Frank 4.0.1 — July 29th, 2016, 9:47 am
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The Mafia would've just killed him Night 2 anyway.
False. Pyro was causing more harm than good for the village, and we still had a Doctor to fish for, so it's highly unlikely we'd have gone for him Night Two. It probably still would have been a Kikori kill really.
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — July 29th, 2016, 12:07 am
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We've been over this before.
Landerpurex wrote:
In what world would we NOT lynch someone behaving so erratically, mafia or town? All that comes of him continuing to live is more confusion amongst the town. Half the people didn't believe his claim in the first place. Day 3 would have looked just like day 2, which would have been a
and very little actual information would have been generated and no actual mafia members would have been lynched.ANY TIME a villager becomes a legitimate danger to the town due to their bad play, they should be lynched.
However, as soon as Zilla actually corroborated his story, everyone shoulda pulled a Maxwell Puckett and went "whoa whoa whoa back the FLIP up we're actually about to possibly lynch our detective maybe!". At that point he's not a danger to the town if other townies can explain that he's just playing really badly and to take what he says with several grains of salt AND tell Pyro to shut the hell up about outing power players early. The Detective is the town's most powerful asset by far. The Mafia would've just killed him Night 2 anyway.
(That being said, he also ragequit, which is pretty unforgivable in my book. Kinda surprised Top's letting him in the next game.)
Landerpurex wrote:
The case of Sparky being new...
Statistics: Posted by Saten Ruiko — July 28th, 2016, 11:37 pm
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I'm pretty sure frank blocked you.
But since you were attempting more than one action, Jack had pyro pick a number. That number would represent which action was blocked.
I guess Jack is so poor he doesn't own any coins.
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — July 28th, 2016, 10:54 pm
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Statistics: Posted by Market Man6 — July 28th, 2016, 10:39 pm
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So Pyro also blocked my kill? Am I reading that right? How does that even work if he's the detective?
Statistics: Posted by Zilla — July 28th, 2016, 9:17 pm
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Besides that I totally am with Lander on this one, I probably would have been just as gung-ho on lynching Pyro had I been village.
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — July 28th, 2016, 12:09 pm
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Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I still feel very strongly about this.
Landerpurex wrote:
Any time a villager is ... playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on.
Well-intentioned players that suck at Mafia need to die, as close to the beginning of the game as possible...?Maybe you could, I dunno, get better at telling when someone doesn't know how to play the game very well, so that they could in turn last long enough to learn how to play better?
Instead of assuming everyone is always automatically an expert at the game?
We've been over this before.
Also, if A+B=C does not mean that A=C. There's a big, BIG difference between someone who's new 'playing badly' and the dumpster fire that was Pyro's claim and the subsequent falling out. See my interaction with Sparky this game, where I DID tell him directly that he had a responsibility to use his vote wisely as a confirmed townie.
And I don't expect anyone to be experts at the game, especially not right away, but I do expect them to use common sense and play with the best interest of their faction in mind.Sparky did that for the most part. Pyro, in my opinion, did not do that.
Everything I've needed to say has been said in my previous post. ANY TIME a villager becomes a legitimate danger to the town due to their bad play, they should be lynched. The lynch serves two purposes, one, to cut bait with that person but moreover to gather information during and after the train in terms of discussion and voting patterns. Normally we do this when someone is clearly disinterested, upset at the state of the game, has given up and/or ragequit. But it also applies when someone's plan has backfired or they do something like make an unsolicited claim and the town becomes fixated on them (kaitlee comes to mind as an example for more than one of these). Sometimes it's just better to lynch that person, learn their identity and conduct damage control, and then analyze the data generated.
I myself have been lynched on this premise before, and I would never hold it against the town for carrying out such a lynch. The case of Sparky being new, perhaps not being correct in his assumptions, and being confirmed is night versus day compared to Pyro this game. Pyro is a smart guy. He has played mafia before. He took a gamble, it did not pay off in the least. What's worse, he outed our JoaT as well, fake ragequit then said 'just kidding'. He was arguing with everyone and fingered at least five people at different intervals as mafia. Even though he was at last partially right in the end.
In what world would we NOT lynch someone behaving so erratically, mafia or town? All that comes of him continuing to live is more confusion amongst the town. Half the people didn't believe his claim in the first place. Day 3 would have looked just like day 2, which would have been a
and very little actual information would have been generated and no actual mafia members would have been lynched.I identified him as a threat regardless of his affiliation. 2 of the 4 mafia members were on his train, which means other town members had the same thought.
Truth be told, I thought long and hard about unvoting him once he said his ragequit was fake, but the fact alone that he would fake ragequit as a townie also means he should be lynched. You can trace my behavior as he first claimed, 3-4 people voted him right away. I did not. It wasn't until later, as the whole thing continued to unravel, that I voted for him.
So, yeah. TL;DR agree to disagree. But don't misunderstand my position on this. Bad (terrible) play =/= new play.
Statistics: Posted by Landerpurex — July 28th, 2016, 10:16 am
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Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
(Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)Statistics: Posted by Saten Ruiko — July 28th, 2016, 12:18 am
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Landerpurex wrote:
Any time a villager is ... playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on.
Maybe you could, I dunno, get better at telling when someone doesn't know how to play the game very well, so that they could in turn last long enough to learn how to play better?
Instead of assuming everyone is always automatically an expert at the game?
Statistics: Posted by Saten Ruiko — July 28th, 2016, 12:06 am
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https://discord.gg/2wq8nWM
Statistics: Posted by Topsummoner — July 27th, 2016, 9:26 pm
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Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)I have to politely disagree. Any time a villager is running amok and purposefully sewing chaos and playing poorly (however well intentioned) he should be lynched, especially early on. Otherwise the mafia would let him live to continue on acting a fool and doing their job for them.
This was an extenuating circumstance where Pyro was also the detective. Why he chose to claim and bring Zilla with him I will never understand. The meta game calls for his lynch as does the long term well being of the town.
Other than that, this game was.....interesting. Shame I got muted then killed. This game left a bad taste in my mouth. Go sign up for 2of4!
As a note, the first thing I did was say that I had found a JOAT and that I had no interest in saying who they were. I then proceeded to say what my suspicions were based on what people were saying or voting, and that I would be investigating those people to reach final determinations. I only said Zilla by name because it was my best bet of stopping my lynch and that if I did die, the doctor would surely keep her alive knowing that I was telling the truth. My survival would have only helped the village since I could still have investigated.
Not to mention, if you all lynched Top with me it would have become extremely apparent that I wasn't mafia at that point.
Kikori wrote:
Saten Ruiko wrote:
Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)"I'm a detective (which on this forum has always been told a person's alignment, not their role) who is going to come out Day Two (which is a terrible time to come out and say anything about being a Detective barring a 100% assured Mafia read) and oust the Jack of All Trades (a villager special role who can not self-protect once they're ousted) while asking the JoaT to protect herself (impossible) or me (which was irrational since it was his suggestion that the JoaT's one use was responsible for Sparky's protect) while in the same day naming numerous people as suspected villagers on Day Two (a near-impossible day to actually peg a Mafia or Villager by from behavior alone) as if my role and alignment is already confirmed (which is impossible to know until dead)."
Nothing about this a trustworthy situation. I honestly spent the entirety of the day phase after placing my vote and the night phase beyond that wondering exactly what combination of circumstances could potentially lead to Pyro being a Mafia who was able to false-claim Detective successfully. Role stealing mechanics, for example. Not a thing about it made sense if it were actually the case... it just somehow was the case.
Glad I could at least make one successful protect.
Pretty sure I asked the doctor (you) to protect Zilla and for Zilla to protect me. As noted, I did this having forgotten that her role was a one time use action deal. I also never stated that JoaT was the one that protected Sparky. I said that we likely had both a doctor and a JOAT. Your role was confirmed in the game the moment Jack said Sparky was saved medically. The only other thing I said in regards to sparky being protected was that it was unlikely that Top would have said to protect the same person that voted for him, and that since he was neither the JOAT, Doctor, or Detective that he was a safe lynch because at worst we would have lost a villager and at best we would have killed a mafia.
Statistics: Posted by Pyro3000 — July 27th, 2016, 6:58 pm
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Landerpurex wrote:
As I said, [our detective] was doing more harm than good and frankly needed to die regardless.
A Villager should never say this! The moment you start saying people who play badly--despite being Villagers--need to die, you've forgotten the entire point of the game, which is to keep as many Villagers alive as possible. While I agree Pyro's mistake would have had me voting for him as well, it was this line that made me feel Landerpurex was the Godfather, along with teammates Top and Frank. (Aragorn was totally not on my radar at all; very nicely played.)"I'm a detective (which on this forum has always been told a person's alignment, not their role) who is going to come out Day Two (which is a terrible time to come out and say anything about being a Detective barring a 100% assured Mafia read) and oust the Jack of All Trades (a villager special role who can not self-protect once they're ousted) while asking the JoaT to protect herself (impossible) or me (which was irrational since it was his suggestion that the JoaT's one use was responsible for Sparky's protect) while in the same day naming numerous people as suspected villagers on Day Two (a near-impossible day to actually peg a Mafia or Villager by from behavior alone) as if my role and alignment is already confirmed (which is impossible to know until dead)."
Nothing about this a trustworthy situation. I honestly spent the entirety of the day phase after placing my vote and the night phase beyond that wondering exactly what combination of circumstances could potentially lead to Pyro being a Mafia who was able to false-claim Detective successfully. Role stealing mechanics, for example. Not a thing about it made sense if it were actually the case... it just somehow was the case.
Glad I could at least make one successful protect.
Statistics: Posted by Kikori — July 27th, 2016, 4:07 pm
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Spirographed wrote:
By the way, I really enjoyed the flavor text/story this game, Jack.
Thanks, I had fun writing it.
Yeah thanks for hosting, Jack. I enjoyed the story too, it's good that you've helped spark a mini revival of the mafia games here as well.
Statistics: Posted by Aragorn Ix — July 27th, 2016, 4:01 pm
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By the way, I really enjoyed the flavor text/story this game, Jack.
Thanks, I had fun writing it.
Statistics: Posted by Jackstick — July 27th, 2016, 3:55 pm
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